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Did you have this same sentiment on Sep. 12th, 2001?
I wanted the perpetrators caught and killed, including the planners and the bankers of that attack
So why didn't we go to war with Saudi Arabia, given that all of the hijackers were Saudis?


To answer your question. Yes, our national security has always been dependent on our sons and daughters to put themselves in harm's way to protect our freedoms and way of life. I agree with the sentiment but I don't see how getting involved in a civil war in Syria addressed that. ISIS was disrupted but it most certainly is NOT destroyed so what did we really gain?

Islamic terrorists have declared war on us. I firmly believe that they not be allowed safe haven anywhere in the world. You are free to disagree with that belief. I stand by it. I believe it is just. So, do you want a genocide to wipe Islam off the earth because that's the only way you will end the threat of Islamic terrorism.

Replies in bold
 
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UBL-After university, he started a business "Services Bureau". They charged rich Saudis to fight the jihad in Afghanistan against the Russians. This was well before AQ was formed. He was educated by our friends at CIA on how to do so. It was run as a business-for profit.

National security is weak or strong based on effort/emphasis. When Bill Clinton cut funding to some parts of the Govt, he hamstrung the international intelligence agencies. Little to no information was flowing. Couple that with a weak stomach for loss of life (Retreat after Mogadishu events, and follow up attacks on USA by AQ), and it encouraged a weakling organization like AQ to be bolder and bolder. We had plenty adequate opportunity to squash AQ, and Clinton chose to kick the can down the road.

We had 15 years to kill off UBL leading up to 911. Nothing.

Then in Tora Bora, we let him slip away, because we wanted to kill folks nicely as possible (Like the folks wandering around the Mtns with UBL were nice people!!!) with our new buddies the Afghans. Took nearly a decade to find him again. All because president after president was unwilling to punch the school bully in the mouth. If the people elect weak leaders who are afraid to do their job, they will get bullied.

Best as I can figure, the Russians are doing a lot better job in the sandbox than we are. They make friends with whoever, and develop relationships....and we play whack a mole with our troops chasing non state enemies, only to cripple their ability to do their job with unreasonable ROE's. America looks pretty inept to much of the world.
 
So enlighten me on how this 'tactical' decision positively effects the global war on terror 'strategy', and our national security.

Who are the primary beneficiaries of this action?

Why don't we start with Afghanistan in the 1980s? How exactly did funding the Mujahadeen (and indirectly Osama Bin Laden) work out for us? 25 years down the road, will some group of Kurds be flying planes or whatever into buildings?

That region is a mess. The UK couldn't fix it in the 1800s (Doctor Watson, of the Sherlock Holmes tales, had been wounded in the Second Anglo-Afghan war if you want some time scale here), the USSR couldn't fix it, we won't fix. They have to figure it out for themselves, and us jumping into the snakepit and expecting anything other than getting bit is sort of nuts.
 
Turkey is always a hot topic around Thanksgiving. Now add some deep fried cheese kurds as a Thanksgiving football gameday snack, we got ourselves a party! Anyone is free to save the kurds for later or have the turkey as they wish. In the end, there is always going to be leftover turkey and kurds for days. :s0140:
 
Everyone is a bad A$$ until its time to do bad A$$ things. I don't see any of these war hawks volunteering themselves or their children to go act as human shields between the Turks their ISIS allies and the Kurds. Yet they won't blink an eye if they can send someone else's kids to go in harms way 7000 miles away in almost worthless ground. Its basically sand, dust and rocks. These people quickly forget that we went their and saved the Kurds from slaughter, remember when they were all trapped up that mountain range by ISIS. Anyways, the Kurds helped us help them capture their lost territory back and then some. Their plan was to open up a corridor to the Mediterranean sea, this would have allowed them to have an independent state, Turkey wasn't going to have any of that. Turkey is about 18% Kurd so they are at risk of civil war. Iran and Iraq also have sizable Kurdish areas and population. This situation isn't over, thanks to the war in ISIS, the Kurds are now heavily armed and have a taste for independence so buckle up for decades more of conflict in that specific region.
 
UBL-After university, he started a business "Services Bureau". They charged rich Saudis to fight the jihad in Afghanistan against the Russians. This was well before AQ was formed. He was educated by our friends at CIA on how to do so. It was run as a business-for profit.

National security is weak or strong based on effort/emphasis. When Bill Clinton cut funding to some parts of the Govt, he hamstrung the international intelligence agencies. Little to no information was flowing. Couple that with a weak stomach for loss of life (Retreat after Mogadishu events, and follow up attacks on USA by AQ), and it encouraged a weakling organization like AQ to be bolder and bolder. We had plenty adequate opportunity to squash AQ, and Clinton chose to kick the can down the road.

We had 15 years to kill off UBL leading up to 911. Nothing.

Then in Tora Bora, we let him slip away, because we wanted to kill folks nicely as possible (Like the folks wandering around the Mtns with UBL were nice people!!!) with our new buddies the Afghans. Took nearly a decade to find him again. All because president after president was unwilling to punch the school bully in the mouth. If the people elect weak leaders who are afraid to do their job, they will get bullied.

Best as I can figure, the Russians are doing a lot better job in the sandbox than we are. They make friends with whoever, and develop relationships....and we play whack a mole with our troops chasing non state enemies, only to cripple their ability to do their job with unreasonable ROE's. America looks pretty inept to much of the world.
Regarding the Russians I recall some terrorist types kidnapped some Russian officials in Lebanon back in the 80's IIRC. The kidnappers were found in little pieces and Russians no longer got kidnapped.
We used to do that sort of stuff with people who effed with us, Barbary pirates, Philippine Insurrection etc. It always got better results than coddling.

It is better to be feared than loved...
 
Everyone is a bad A$$ until its time to do bad A$$ things. I don't see any of these war hawks volunteering themselves or their children to go act as human shields between the Turks their ISIS allies and the Kurds. Yet they won't blink an eye if they can send someone else's kids to go in harms way 7000 miles away in almost worthless ground. Its basically sand, dust and rocks. These people quickly forget that we went their and saved the Kurds from slaughter, remember when they were all trapped up that mountain range by ISIS. Anyways, the Kurds helped us help them capture their lost territory back and then some. Their plan was to open up a corridor to the Mediterranean sea, this would have allowed them to have an independent state, Turkey wasn't going to have any of that. Turkey is about 18% Kurd so they are at risk of civil war. Iran and Iraq also have sizable Kurdish areas and population. This situation isn't over, thanks to the war in ISIS, the Kurds are now heavily armed and have a taste for independence so buckle up for decades more of conflict in that specific region.

I always thought that W should have given the Kurds norther Iraq as the way to form a Kurdish state.Arm them and let them handle ISIS/Al Quaeda as they saw fit
Hell, Iraq was a creation of the British after WWI anyway so it would hardly be the destruction of an ancient land to repartition Iraq and it would have been a good reward for their help in the area
 
Regarding the Russians I recall some terrorist types kidnapped some Russian officials in Lebanon back in the 80's IIRC. The kidnappers were found in little pieces and Russians no longer got kidnapped.
We used to do that sort of stuff with people who effed with us, Barbary pirates, Philippine Insurrection etc. It always got better results than coddling.

It is better to be feared than loved...

You're close... the terrorist's FAMILIES (close and extended) were also taken out with extreme prejudice.
 

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