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Syria

nwslopoke

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This decision by the bone-spur-in-chief is a major tactical blunder. Anybody with a modicum of sense understands this.
It's not a case of we (the west) are better than another country, we are just different. They have as little desire to live like us as we do to live like them and they have been doing it longer. So as soon as we leave they go back to business as usual, the next day.
 
10 - 11,000 of those "extreme communist terrorists" died putting away ISIS. If it hadn't of been for them you would have seen a lot more body bags coming back to the US. The presence of those 28 - 50 US Special Forces were keeping the entire area stable. Until back stabbing inept Trump came along. Who in their right mind would trust the US now?
You lack the understanding of how SF is utilized. Although SF are bad-assed snake eaters who are mentally wired, and physically conditioned to endure “less than optimal” field conditions, their primary mission is “force multipliers”. That means they get schooled in the local flora, fauna, culture, and immersed in the local language before deployment. They then develop and train indigenous people (based on their prior training of the culture) into a fighting force, then “advise” them when conducting operations.

Although they can be, SF isn’t (and never has been) a “primary” fighting force on the battlefield. They’re a relatively über scarce, and precious military asset (ratio wise), and shouldn’t be squandered.




We fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them here.

This decision by the bone-spur-in-chief is a major tactical blunder. Anybody with a modicum of sense understands this.

So, you learned all about tactics at The War College, did ya? BTW- this is a “strategic” issue, not a “tactical” one.

Lemme tell ya something about “career” generals and senior officers that are climbing the “promotion ladder”. They love war, it’s all they live and train for. Without a real war all they have is “pretend” simulations, and if you think they don’t love testing out all their “pet” weapons systems, tactics, basking in the glory, the medals & awards, the recognition, the POWER over others, and don’t forget the sweet lucrative book deals afterwards... then your sorely lacking in your perspective.

Of course they never want to leave the area.... :rolleyes:
 
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Let me amend my previous post: Generals would have a harder time becoming generals without war. Not that they can't become generals.

A commanding war officer has a much higher chance of promotion.

If all he's commanded is a desk or it's equivalent his chances of promotion are significantly lower...in general.
 

Mikej

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The world knows what CNN tells them. They are so full of TDS and leftist bias. I can only guess at the truth because I don't know what it is. What I believe is the handful of troops we have there were in danger. I don't believe they are expendable.

The narrative that certain people won't attack because US forces are there ignore the last 20 years. There has been no shortage of people shooting at us.
It's not a case of we (the west) are better than another country, we are just different. They have as little desire to live like us as we do to live like them and they have been doing it longer. So as soon as we leave they go back to business as usual, the next day.
You lack the understanding of how SF is utilized. Although SF are bad-assed snake eaters who are mentally wired, and physically conditioned to endure “less than optimal” field conditions, their primary mission is “force multipliers”. That means they get schooled in the local flora, fauna, culture, and immersed in the local language before deployment. They then develop and train indigenous people (based on their prior training of the culture) into a fighting force, then “advise” them when conducting operations.

Although they can be, SF isn’t (and never has been) a “primary” fighting force on the battlefield. They’re a relatively über scarce, and precious military asset (ratio wise), and shouldn’t be squandered.







So, you learned all about tactics at The War College, did ya? BTW- this is a “strategic” issue, not a “tactical” one.

Lemme tell ya something about “career” generals and senior officers that are climbing the “promotion ladder”. They love war, it’s all they live and train for. Without a real war all they have is “pretend” simulations, and if you think they don’t love testing out all their “pet” weapons systems, tactics, basking in the glory, the medals & awards, the recognition, the POWER over others, and don’t forget the sweet lucrative book deals afterwards... then your sorely lacking in your perspective.

Of course they never want to leave the area.... :rolleyes:
Again, these kinds responses are what make this site great. It helps me learn much better what's going on than responses blasting members that, clearly, get all their info from the nightly news. Or from people on the street of large Oregon/Washington cities.

Anything that sounds outrageous, or fantastical, must be questioned. There's a high likelihood you'll find those stories as partial truths or filled with outright untruths.
 
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Surprised to see so many cut'n'run peaceniks on a firearms site. Apparently "never forget" has been lost on a few.

It's unfortunate those having been seduced into a man-crush, causing the blood from their big head being allocated to their little head.

Speaking of generals...

He called this guy the "World's most overrated general" and "not tough enough"

Dear Mr. President,I have been privileged to serve as our country's 26th Secretary of Defense which has allowed me to serve alongside our men and women of the Department in defense of our citizens and our ideals.I am proud of the progress that has been made over the past two years on some of the key goals articulated in our National Defense Strategy: putting the Department on a more sound budgetary footing, improving readiness and lethality in our forces, and reforming the Department's business practices for greater performance. Our troops continue to provide the capabilities needed to prevail in conflict and sustain strong U.S. global influence.One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. Like you, I have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the world. Instead, we must use all tools of American power to provide for the common defense, including providing effective leadership to our alliances. NATO's 29 democracies demonstrated that strength in their commitment to fighting alongside us following the 9-11 attack on America. The Defeat-ISIS coalition of 74 nations is further proof.Similarly, I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours. It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model - gaining veto authority over other nations' economic, diplomatic, and security decisions - to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American power to provide for the common defense.My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. We must do everything possible to advance an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values, and we are strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances.Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position. The end date for my tenure is February 28, 2019, a date that should allow sufficient time for a successor to be nominated and confirmed as well as to make sure the Department's interests are properly articulated and protected at upcoming events to include Congressional posture hearings and the NATO Defense Ministerial meeting in February. Further, that a full transition to a new Secretary of Defense occurs well in advance of the transition of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September in order to ensure stability Within the Department.I pledge my full effort to a smooth transition that ensures the needs and interests of the 2.15 million Service Members and 732,079 DoD civilians receive undistracted attention of the Department at all times so that they can fulfill their critical, round-the-clock mission to protect the American people.I very much appreciate this opportunity to serve the nation and our men and women in uniform.

As for "being there forever". I suppose we ought to pack up and get out of Germany and Japan too while where at it.:s0057:
 
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There's a long history of good and bad decisions going back a long time (Sykes-Picot was 1916) in that part of the world.

The only reason this is making so many headlines right now, is we are in an election cycle, and no matter they are gonna attack the sitting presidents choices.

Which is funny, because the decisions of the previous president is a big part of the reason that this got so far out of hand in the first place. Overthrowing a government with Saddam, and leaving a power vacuum worked so well.....lets try it again with Assad!

Funny thing about the media (And to a great degree, the people of this country) is, they have a very short memory. I have not seen much in the news about previous choices made by world leaders leading us up to this moment.

On top of all that, we hope to push democracy on a people who don't want it. Many of them don't have basic infrastructure like power, roads, water or law enforcement. This is sometimes dictated by circumstance. Sometimes by choice. At some point, we need to understand not everyone wants to wear Nike shoes and facetweet every second of their life.

The fix in the sandbox is going to come from the people who live there. We cannot kill our way out of it (Not to say we shouldn't fight back to small groups who earn our attention). The ninjas in SF are very good at these things.

IMO- We should quit arming any side. Stop training them in how to fight. It's bit us in the bubblegum for a long time.
 
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So, you learned all about tactics at The War College, did ya? BTW- this is a “strategic” issue, not a “tactical” one.
So enlighten me on how this 'tactical' decision positively effects the global war on terror 'strategy', and our national security.

Who are the primary beneficiaries of this action?
 

GWS

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As for "being there forever". I suppose we ought to pack up and get out of Germany and Japan too while where at it.:s0057:
How many of our soldiers have been killed or maimed in Germany or Japan in the last 70 years?
Are we in a pointless shooting war in Germany or Japan now or in the last 70 years?
How much of the infrastructure and buildings we have built in Germany or Japan have they blown up?
How often are our supply deliveries to Germany and Japan ambushed?

Do you really think that occupying and maintaining bases in Germany and Japan is the same as what's going on in south and southwest Asia?

Do you really believe that anything in that region (Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan) is worth your son or daughter's life?
 

slimmer13

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I've never served, nor have I been to the ME, but I listen to and read about the people that have, and they usually say they wanted to be there.

They also say that we have to maintain a presence in these places to suppress the groups whose sole purpose and existence is to kill us.

I agree with this. I dont know the extent of the presence we need to maintain though. If covert assets and surgical strikes is enough, or are boots on the ground needed.

We've invested 70 years of stabilizing presence in to S Korea, Japan, and Germany and this helped them become first world countries and allies. This will never work in the ME though because of the backwards ideology many of them follow. Our presence there is simply to not let these groups get powerful enough to be a huge threat.
 
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Do you really believe that anything in that region (Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan) is worth your son or daughter's life?
Did you have this same sentiment on Sep. 12th, 2001?

To answer your question. Yes, our national security has always been dependent on our sons and daughters to put themselves in harm's way to protect our freedoms and way of life.

Islamic terrorists have declared war on us. I firmly believe that they not be allowed safe haven anywhere in the world. You are free to disagree with that belief. I stand by it. I believe it is just.
 

Ura-Ki

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Lets remember, 1991 was to end a regime WE built up and supported until it's "Leader" got rich and powerful and decided to get uppity! Lets remember, Iran was an ally until the Shaw went stupid! Lets remember, that after our little adventure in 1991, we failed to remove a corrupt power, and to achieve any gains. during this time, we seriously pissed off a former Saudi who became the defacto leader of a large well funded and powerful terror cell, a fact we came to understand Sept 11! So, we did what America does best, sent our boys and girls over seas to a sh!t hole of a country and started all over! WE made ISIS, We made all the other terror groups, and now WE must accept that and decide how best to deal with them! And don't forget, We also Support Israel and their needs, though we have not always been best of friends ( to put it nicely) so there is that as well!
This thing is Syria is a result of instability and Bad guy fighting lesser bad guy!
Turkey has never played by the rules and has been a real muthatrucker of an ally, we might as well ask Little Rocket Man if we can build an air base in North Korea and house nukes there to threaten Russia, almost the same kind of deal! Turkey plays by it's own rules, and with all the turmoil and changes in leadership and infighting, they are just about as stable as North Korea! Turkey is NOT our ally, they are a means to an end only, and the NATO agreements are worthless to them no matter what kind of support we send them! This is why we never send anything modern in the way of Military hardware, they take what ever it is for them selves and use it against what ever need they decide to, often painting it in U.S> Markings to make it look like its US doing bad and not them! Turkey needs to ether clean it's own house, or they need their arse kicked, but they are no friend of the U.S. As far as the Bosporus, we have our new buddies in the Ukraine to support, and when they can pull their thumbs out and get on with things, they have the Mighty Grand Black Sea Fleet to play with, securing those waters just fine on their own, and with that new alliance, makes for a pretty powerful statement of realignment in the region! Turkey will face a reckoning soon, and this little Dust Up inSyria is just the pre game show!
 

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