Swiss GP11 subsititute

[tac]

Now that there are only TWO boxes of genuine Swiss GP11 known to me in the whole country [that's two boxes of ten rounds, BTW], those of us who shoot these lovely old guns are having to reload. Sadly, with the price of 175gr bullets of quality comparable to the orginal costing WAY more than complete ready-to-shoot PPU ammunition, we are having to cut our cloth and bite the bullet, so to speak, if you'll forgive me mixing metaphors...

I got doned a tube of Reloader 17, and with the advice of two buddies on swissrifles.com [Thanks milprileb and Leon], I loaded up fifteen rounds in three different weights of powder to be getting on with. The bullet is the Sierra Match King 167gr - 'only' $60 a hundred here..........

This here is the 50.5gr load at 100m - somewhat larger than life due to the computer transfer process. It actually measures just one inch top to bottom in realhoodshipness.


Give me something to work with, I reckon.

tac

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[Gaucho Gringo]

Here is some.

<broken link removed>

 

[Medic!]

Don't know Tac?
You could end up looking Tacky.


He lives in the UK.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

More

https://www.classicfirearms.com/7-5-swiss-ammo-122

7.5x55 Swiss Ammo for Sale at Widener's

 

[Medic!]

More

Swiss 7.5x55 174gr FMJ Ammo - 480rd Case

7.5x55 Swiss Ammo for Sale at Widener's

I don't think your picking up. What I'm putting down.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Oops

 

[tac]

Merci, mon vieux. Me, I still live here in the flat bit near to The Netherlands. BTW, I found some MORE GP11 this morning, at 92c per shot.............

I'll be reloading again this evening, methinks.

Best to all.

tac

 

[MountainBear]

Tac, are there regulations on ammunition reloading components similar to the onerous firearms regulations you are forced to deal with?

 

[tac]

Tac, are there regulations on ammunition reloading components similar to the onerous firearms regulations you are forced to deal with?

Apart from the fact that I can't actually buy soft-point/expanding bullets, none whatsoever. I've been reloading here and in the rest of Europe, since about 1967.

The reason for not being allowed to have SP of fragmenting bullets is that I am 'conditioned' /documented for target shooting where neither are permitted except for zeroing. My 'good reason' for acquiring and possessing any Section 1 [Rifled] Firearm is that I shoot paper, not live game of any kind. This is one of the conditions/'good reasons' for letting me have guns at all.

IF I wanted to change all that, and go hunting [called stalking here] or vermin shooting [also called pest control], I would have to -

1. Find a local [initially] landowner/estate manager who had a deer problem/fox problem, and get him to authorise me in writing. This is called getting a 'permission', and is another valid 'good reason' for acquiring etc.

2. I send off my current Firearms Certificate [called FAC for short, or even 'ticket'], with an amount of money, and the downloaded application for a variation, then....

3. I get visited by one of the local Firearms Investigation Officers [FEOs]. He has a chat with me about why I have this sudden need to go and slaughter the local wildlife and then - and you will no doubt fall about laffing' [I don't blame you] - he will ACCOMPANY me to the area over which I have been given permission to shoot, so that HE can see that I have a good appreciation of the landscape with regard to safe angles of fire et al.

4. If he is happy that I won't inadvertently be lofting long-range shots into the local supermarket or dropping the odd shot through a schoolhouse window, he will make his recommendation that I be granted the revised FAC which is now 'conditioned' for both target shooting and game shooting/pest control. Eventually, if live game shooting is to my taste, I'll get one that does not just permit me to shoot deer or vermin, but AOLQ - 'any other live quarry'. Here in UK that is a mite thin on the ground, as the Romans killed all the bears about 1800 years syne, but feral hogs are on the increase, as are feral goats

5. If I want to eat the animals I've killed [rabbits are OK, but fox are definitely not] he will also recommend that I undertake the British Deer Society [BDS] Course Parts 1 through 3, and if I am not already in it, join up with the national association called BASC - the British Association for Shooting and Conservation. This latter one is a good wheeze, as they are a VERY powerful bunch indeed to have on your side, not only when you are buying your new Subaru or Mitsubishi pickup with great discounts, but if anything goes wrong....with your shooting, that is, that needs legal advice. Insurance is also included in the annual fee as well.

Also noted on my FAC, as well the fact that I can now 'take and acquire live game within the limitations imposed below [that's the place that I can legally shoot] is the authority to acquire and possess n [a number] complete rounds of Section 5 [Prohibited] soft-point/fragmenting ammunition or bullets thereof. IOW, if my ammunition allocation is 300 rounds of .243, then I can't have more than 300 SP .243 bullets either - that is VERY VERY illegal, and might get me 5 years jail time. Any dealer will examine my FAC for this authorisation before he sells me any SP stuff - no authorisation, no sales either, and just like live ammunition of any kind, sales here in UK are face-to-face only, as the dealer has to enter the sales details in your FAC under 'ammunition acquired'.

As an aside - about 40% of our 430-strong club membership are also game shooters of one kind or another, and a good few are semi/professionals. We also have about half a dozen who are instructors for the BDS, 1 through 3 [level 3 is a three-day residential, IIRC, usually takes place Scotland or the West Midlands, and requires two or maybe three dead deer to qualify, plus field and post-field butchering and lots of legal stuff over the top of levels 1 and 2.

Something that doesn't bother you guys much, except maybe in the NE states, is that UK - ALL of UK - has lower limits of m/e and m/v for shooting the various sizes of deer we have here, from the jackalope-sized muntjac to the stately red - fifteen pounds to four hundred. In Scotland the LAW requires both m/v and m/e to be of a certain level, or else...

@Andyin Everson - that means NO black powder game shooting of any kind, except shotgunning....... x 10

See -
Legal Firearms and Ammunition For Shooting Deer in the United Kingdom
Scotland
Roe Deer Bullet weight at least 50 grains, minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second and minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds.

All other Deer Species Bullet weight at least 100 grains, minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second and minimum muzzle energy of 1750 foot pounds.

England and Wales
Chinese Water Deer Minimum calibre of no less than .220 inches, muzzle energy no less than 1000 foot pounds and bullet weight no less than 50 grains.
Muntjac Minimum calibre of no less than .220 inches, muzzle energy no less than 1000 foot pounds and bullet weight no less than 50 grains.
All other Deer Species Minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds.

Northern Ireland
Chinese Water Deer Minimum calibre of .220, minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.
Muntjac Minimum calibre of .220, minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.
All other Deer Species Minimum calibre of .236 inches, minimum bullet weight of 100 grains and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds.

I find it very amusing that my .45-70 Govt, loaded with a 500gr lead bullet at 1450 fps, is illegal for deer in Scotland as it is not considered 'adequate'.

Tell that to the buffalo...

Answered your question? PFF to ask any more.

tac

 

[tac]

Please ignore the striking through. I did NOT do it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

tac

 

[MountainBear]

Well damn. I appreciate the information, but I refuse to hit like for that amount of bureaucracy...

The offer still stands for a range trip if you ever make it over to the colonies. Not many restrictions (other than NFA)...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Same here for me tac ... If you are ever near , lets hit the range!
Andy

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Please ignore the striking through. I did NOT do it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

tac

Fixed, and, forgive me but. Christ! What a snafu!

 

[Baseacegoku]

Apart from the fact that I can't actually buy soft-point/expanding bullets, none whatsoever. I've been reloading here and in the rest of Europe, since about 1967.

The reason for not being allowed to have SP of fragmenting bullets is that I am 'conditioned' /documented for target shooting where neither are permitted except for zeroing. My 'good reason' for acquiring and possessing any Section 1 [Rifled] Firearm is that I shoot paper, not live game of any kind. This is one of the conditions/'good reasons' for letting me have guns at all.

IF I wanted to change all that, and go hunting [called stalking here] or vermin shooting [also called pest control], I would have to -

1. Find a local [initially] landowner/estate manager who had a deer problem/fox problem, and get him to authorise me in writing. This is called getting a 'permission', and is another valid 'good reason' for acquiring etc.

2. I send off my current Firearms Certificate [called FAC for short, or even 'ticket'], with an amount of money, and the downloaded application for a variation, then....

3. I get visited by one of the local Firearms Investigation Officers [FEOs]. He has a chat with me about why I have this sudden need to go and slaughter the local wildlife and then - and you will no doubt fall about laffing' [I don't blame you] - he will ACCOMPANY me to the area over which I have been given permission to shoot, so that HE can see that I have a good appreciation of the landscape with regard to safe angles of fire et al.

4. If he is happy that I won't inadvertently be lofting long-range shots into the local supermarket or dropping the odd shot through a schoolhouse window, he will make his recommendation that I be granted the revised FAC which is now 'conditioned' for both target shooting and game shooting/pest control. Eventually, if live game shooting is to my taste, I'll get one that does not just permit me to shoot deer or vermin, but AOLQ - 'any other live quarry'. Here in UK that is a mite thin on the ground, as the Romans killed all the bears about 1800 years syne, but feral hogs are on the increase, as are feral goats

5. If I want to eat the animals I've killed [rabbits are OK, but fox are definitely not] he will also recommend that I undertake the British Deer Society [BDS] Course Parts 1 through 3, and if I am not already in it, join up with the national association called BASC - the British Association for Shooting and Conservation. This latter one is a good wheeze, as they are a VERY powerful bunch indeed to have on your side, not only when you are buying your new Subaru or Mitsubishi pickup with great discounts, but if anything goes wrong....with your shooting, that is, that needs legal advice. Insurance is also included in the annual fee as well.

Also noted on my FAC, as well the fact that I can now 'take and acquire live game within the limitations imposed below [that's the place that I can legally shoot] is the authority to acquire and possess n [a number] complete rounds of Section 5 [Prohibited] soft-point/fragmenting ammunition or bullets thereof. IOW, if my ammunition allocation is 300 rounds of .243, then I can't have more than 300 SP .243 bullets either - that is VERY VERY illegal, and might get me 5 years jail time. Any dealer will examine my FAC for this authorisation before he sells me any SP stuff - no authorisation, no sales either, and just like live ammunition of any kind, sales here in UK are face-to-face only, as the dealer has to enter the sales details in your FAC under 'ammunition acquired'.

As an aside - about 40% of our 430-strong club membership are also game shooters of one kind or another, and a good few are semi/professionals. We also have about half a dozen who are instructors for the BDS, 1 through 3 [level 3 is a three-day residential, IIRC, usually takes place Scotland or the West Midlands, and requires two or maybe three dead deer to qualify, plus field and post-field butchering and lots of legal stuff over the top of levels 1 and 2.

Something that doesn't bother you guys much, except maybe in the NE states, is that UK - ALL of UK - has lower limits of m/e and m/v for shooting the various sizes of deer we have here, from the jackalope-sized muntjac to the stately red - fifteen pounds to four hundred. In Scotland the LAW requires both m/v and m/e to be of a certain level, or else...

@Andyin Everson - that means NO black powder game shooting of any kind, except shotgunning....... x 10

See -
Legal Firearms and Ammunition For Shooting Deer in the United Kingdom
Scotland
Roe Deer Bullet weight at least 50 grains, minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second and minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds.

All other Deer Species Bullet weight at least 100 grains, minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second and minimum muzzle energy of 1750 foot pounds.

England and Wales
Chinese Water Deer Minimum calibre of no less than .220 inches, muzzle energy no less than 1000 foot pounds and bullet weight no less than 50 grains.
Muntjac Minimum calibre of no less than .220 inches, muzzle energy no less than 1000 foot pounds and bullet weight no less than 50 grains.
All other Deer Species Minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds.

Northern Ireland
Chinese Water Deer Minimum calibre of .220, minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.
Muntjac Minimum calibre of .220, minimum muzzle energy of 1000 foot pounds and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.
All other Deer Species Minimum calibre of .236 inches, minimum bullet weight of 100 grains and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds.

I find it very amusing that my .45-70 Govt, loaded with a 500gr lead bullet at 1450 fps, is illegal for deer in Scotland as it is not considered 'adequate'.

Tell that to the buffalo...

Answered your question? PFF to ask any more.

tac

This is just a stupid amount of bullbubblegum you gotta jump through. No wonder shooting sports arent more popular in the UK.

 

[tac]

Here it abide by the law or take up knitting.

Guys, it's this or nothing - what would YOU do?

With a local US population approaching 25,000 men, women and children - yes, you read that right - these ridiculous laws just HAVE to be the real reason why we have just ONE American club member. He's from AZ, BTW.

Add to the laws the real hassle of not being able to store personally-owned firearms on base, finding two people already here in yUK who have known you for at least two years to be your initial referees and all the other hoops, and I reckon it's pretty much understandable.

Thanks for all the offers, BTW - much appreciated. We'll be over in June for about a mumf.

Best to all

tac

PS - @Site administrator - what's with the strike-through? It's not even an option on my toolbar.

 

[MountainBear]

If I lived there, I would likely do what you've done. Although I'm not sure I could afford my hobby there, especially since civilian gunsmiths are probably regulated heavily and you likely don't need a us history teacher...

P.S. who made F2Cmadmaxx a staff member?

 

[Baseacegoku]

Thanks for all the offers, BTW - much appreciated. We'll be over in June for about a mumf.

Best to all

tac

I wouldnt mind throwing in some guns and ammo for a group shoot with you Tac

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Man you guys are quick. Been cleaning stuff up for a few months now!

Took me a while to find the strike through myself, it's on the '+' button.

 

[tac]

What '+' button?

Ahah! THAT '+' button!

Gotcha.

tac

 

[tac]

If I lived there, I would likely do what you've done. Although I'm not sure I could afford my hobby there, especially since civilian gunsmiths are probably regulated heavily and you likely don't need a us history teacher...

Here in yUK we called dealers RFD - Registered Firearms Dealers. They have a license to deal in arms and ammunition, and the legal requirement to register all sales of arms and ammunition, and, as you can see from my post above, the sales of just ONE type of prohibited merchandise -Section 5 [Expanding/fragmenting] ammunition or bullets. Some will also have a black powder license, too.

Section 1 dealers - that's ordinary firearms of the permitted type under Section i [Rifled firearms] and shotguns are commonplace. Here in UK ANYBODY can have a shotgun that holds 1 - 3 cartridges, but more than that - a pump or semi - requires a Section 1 FAC.

Anybody with a clean record can set up as an RFD, but must show a minimum level of sales and so on to justify the outlay of all the extra security needed in the location. There are, off the top of my head, around 5000 RFD in the yUK.

Section 5 dealers per se deal in otherwise prohibited stuff, like REAL handguns that look like handguns, and YES, they CAN be owned here, but I need another post to tell you how that happens. They also deal internationally with arms that are prohibited here in yUK for the ordinary Joe, like rifled semi-auto centrefire long arms.

Apart from the gunstore club members of trade businesses, we have about three or four 'home-dealer' RFDs in the club who somehow manage to make a part-living out of it all.

tac