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rifle finally arrived! It tooks a few weeks. Turns out, if they don't put a priority on processing FFL transfers. Once they did, things went pretty quick. I called once and the lady I talked to was very polite and helpful. Only complaint is the time it took to ship out. But... If you are busy you're busy I guess.
 
I have made trips up from Portland just to go to this store. I have rented hotel rooms and "made a weekend of it" so the wife and boy would be happy. I very much like the staff. I very much like the selection of ammo, especially the milsurp stuff. Being an Oregonian, I have never purchased a firearm there. I have asked questions and have always been treated with respect. I buy Yugo 7.62x39 and Russian 5.45x39 by the crate, at least the by the tin in the case of the 5.45. I paid $230 per crate of Yugo(can't remember if it was the 1120 rds. on strippers or the 1260). At a local Portland store, the only one that I know of to stock it and in all fairness my favorite Portland store, wanted $325. That is just the ammo for my AK's. I can pick up 8mm Mauser there as well. I can also find inexpensive(relatively) bulk .308 and others. I am a handloader and most of my pistol stuff I make myself. As far as the milsurp ammo goes, please show me a place closer where I can walk out with all the ammo I need for 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 8mm and .308 in bulk packaging and pricing and I will be happy to shop there. Seriously, if a place like that exists here, please let me know. Until then, thank you Surplus Ammo & Arms. I just wish you were a little closer. Kip
 
I have made trips up from Portland just to go to this store. I have rented hotel rooms and "made a weekend of it" so the wife and boy would be happy. I very much like the staff. I very much like the selection of ammo, especially the milsurp stuff...

Kip, I agree with you with this exception that keeps SAA from becoming a much better store.
When I drive 3 hours up there and 3 hours back, I want to know what my price will be when I get there and if it's in stock.
I check the website before I go, but find out when I get there, it's not in stock in their store or the price is higher.
Just frustrated knowing better business management could be done with little effort to better serve customers.
 
Bought my wife's concealed pistol there a few years ago and they were nice.
When I was looking to purchase some AR/AK rifles last year I thought of them because of their decent AR Selection, but I had some questions I had emailed them with - while I received a 'read receipt' I never got a response. Tried twice more over a span of several weeks, and each time the message was read & confirmed, but never responded to.

If it's to much hassle to taken 2 minutes to respond to an email, obviously they don't want the business. I've since bought all my parts, rifles & ammo from other places and these guys are on my 'never do business with them again' list. At this point I don't even care if they could beat a price by 5 , 10 or even a 100bucks, my money goes to a another local business that deserves it because of their outstanding customer service! (they know who they are )
 
When I was looking to purchase some AR/AK rifles last year I thought of them because of their decent AR Selection, but I had some questions I had emailed them with - while I received a 'read receipt' I never got a response. Tried twice more over a span of several weeks, and each time the message was read & confirmed, but never responded to.

No excuse for that, but as an aside it seems to be really common with firearm dealers and manufacturers. Not sure if it is because they're so busy, or a bunch of luddites, but I seem to have a tough time getting e-mail responses to my questions. Some are pretty good, many are really bad about it.
 
Something most of youdo not know, The store and the website are 2 different entities under the same name. What's in stock or shows online isn't what is always in store. Most online stuff is mostly closeout and isn't in store.

"Sent while riding my purple unicorn bareback through the clouds"
 
Something most of youdo not know, The store and the website are 2 different entities under the same name. What's in stock or shows online isn't what is always in store. Most online stuff is mostly closeout and isn't in store.

"Sent while riding my purple unicorn bareback through the clouds"


This. The store and the website have the same owner, but everything from management, staff, and even location are different. Almost like say how VW and Lamborghini are both owned by the Volkswagen automotive group.
 
Just wanted to point out a 5th time disappointment with Surplus Ammo...

I gave them multiple chances both online and in store, but I guess I'll start off using the sandwich technique.

The good:
I have an AR upper from Surplus which is surprisingly reliable. I have had it for almost a year and firing 55gr XM193 ammo I have had zero malfunctions. I have yet to clean it after about 2700 rounds. It groups reasonably well at 100 yards and 200yards. I was expecting a plinker, but got a reliable rifle instead. They have decent prices.

The bad:
I'll start with the online. Just like many places online, they seem to have a special response for first time buyers. My first time buying from them online was quick and the turn around was great. That's where it stopped. On my second order online I waited for 1 and 1/2 weeks and heard nothing back from them. I didn't respond because I read that some people have had their stuff show up without notice. I sent them an email and got a response back from a gmail account. They apologized and said there was a mixup. It went out that day and I got it the next day. Tacoma to Seattle doesn't take that long (just ask gang members).

I thought ok, stuff happens. Second order, I get an instant label via email. Then a few days goes by and nothing. I check the shipping update and it hasn't been processed. So I decided to call and the guy that answered sounded like one of those angry women you run into at the DMV in any-town USA. He just said "Sir we don't process online orders here, Sir..." You get the idea. So I send an email and get no response. Then suddenly my order is updated and shipped.

So, my idea of straying away from Bravo Company and Rainier Arms for gear isn't going too well. I wanted to see if I was wasting my time with yet another trailer park masquerading as a gun store. By that I mean, something that smells like Bulls Eye range in Tacoma, staffed with guys who barely finished high school and learned about guns because of Call Of Duty. Let me elaborate a bit more, tacticool workers who are hypervigilant about accusing others of being tacticool. Hopefully that paints an adequate picture. I personally don't put much weight in military or LEO experience, because having been in the military myself I quickly learned it's the person, not the job. I've learned more about firearms outside the Army. So I just want someone who knows what they are talking about. I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the country, but here in the NW people are less pretentious the more they know.

I decided to do a test. Why? Because dealing with people like I just described is not only getting old, but I think it is ruining the potential of the gun industry to grow correctly. I called their retail store and and said I had a couple of questions about shipping to an APO. Specifically, I asked if I could get some stuff sent to an FBO. If I had to fill out PS Form 2976 or if they did that. I pretended I was still in the Army and used as many abbreviations as I could. I gave the guy an address from my former unit and FBO info. When I was done with this, the guy was more than helpful. He even asked me about what "we" were using for BUIS and about magazines and started listing all of this technical stuff. My guess is that whatever I told him would end up on arfcom via his login as "I got a friend that is deployed at FBO (insert) and he says (insert opinion)..."

So then I called 5 minutes later from girlfriends cell and acted like a beginner. Same guy answered and was a complete ________! He began to tell me what I needed and what wouldn't work. What people who do "real work" actually use and (this is the best part) why guys who are deployed come to them. You get the idea.

The big point here is WHY he would act differently. The reason he would do this is because it gives somebody who is nobody some sort of validation. My girlfriend comes from TV production, so it provides a good analogy here. She said that one time as an intern she went to the equipment checkout at the studio she worked at to get some things. She needed gels for lights, a couple of other things and she asked for clothespins. She said the guy got very angry and said there weren't any. She could see them and pointed to them. He then told her those were t345 (or something dumb like that). What you have in that situation is what is extremely common in some gun stores. People with easy jobs who try and over-complicate things to create a higher level of self importance.

I decided to forget about Surplus. I went with my friend to tactical tailor and low and behold surplus ammo's retail store was next door. I decided to check it out. I just want to say this first. 15-20 minutes a day is all it takes to stay in general shape. How is someone supposed to respect a person who claims to know about mil-spec when they keep themselves in world of warcraft all day-spec? The prices in the retail store were much higher than the same stuff online. I wasn't trying to be a jerk, in fact I was the opposite and just had a few questions to ask. Every time I asked the sales person asked one guy. The same went for other sales people too. Everyone seemed to have to ask this one guy. There were a few people in there who were getting the shaft, the staff had an attitude... etc etc. Then a cop (maybe a sheriff) walked in and their attitude changed. They all wanted to seem like they knew him. One guy made it a point to stop helping a customer and say the cops name and ask how patrols are going and something about "the perps." The cop looked at him like he didn't know him and proceeded to ask about about a pickup order of ammo. The salesguy then said to the customer: "WA leo use us as their suppliers because they know we know our stuff. " It has nothing to do with being a place in Tacoma that has cheap practice ammo?

So you get the idea. I wrote this because my friend is on his 7th day with no response from Surplus ammo on an order he made. It is his second, the first went super fast. He didn't even receive a shipping label email until 4 days after his order. Yesterday he got an email that says the order has been shipped, but then when he checked it online the info could not be verified. Sounds familiar.

If he had asked me, I would have told him to go to Rainier arms or bravo company. Character trickles down in businesses it seems. While I understand that Surplus can't control all of its employees, I bet I'm not the first one to find these sorts of problems. My guess is that's their "culture" and it won't change. They certainly won't get my business any more, I'll put them in the category of Wades - no go.
 
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My experience...until recently has been pretty good. Price, supply, assistance, and I live only 10 minutes away...that is why I am very disappointed in Surplus Ammo currently. I walked in and picked up 2 PMags for $13.99 ea. (day before the shooting in Connecticut). 4 days later, the president gun ban talk and the same mags were listed for $30. I got past the price gouge and talked handguns with an employee. I was very specific on what I wanted and inquired about ordering the gun. I was informed I would have to come in and check to see if they had the gun in stock on a weekly basis...first come first serve. Seriously??? I would have placed cash in their hands that moment if they showed an interest in making a sale. Maybe business is that good that they don't need my $600 on a handgun order. I actually would have purchased two handguns (one was on the shelf), 4 Pmags, and a mag for my M&P .40. Non of these purchases were in reaction to the recent occurances. I'm not sure what their business model is at this moment but after this experience it will take quite a while to get that good feeling back.
 
RogerThat,
The online company is not connected to the store. We don't play games and don't appreciate it when others do, even as a "test." World of Warcract spec? Talking about me wearing a WoW t-shirt? That's going to sway your opinion of my knowledge? Perhaps the armorer's courses I've attended didn't stick then because I like a specific video game.

By the way, we don't need to do that bull. There is over a century of military experience behind this counter. From plain 11B and 11C, to a former long tabber, to a current AFSOC medic (works part time). Plus the part timer who is a cop and AF reserve SF. Some of us actually do have friends deployed.

Then there are the armorer's courses from SIG, GLOCK, S&W, Knight's, Aaron and his 1911 he built at a Larry Vicker's course, Specialized Armament, Remington.


sbro,
We will not take money until we either have the item or we know exactly how much it will cost AND when we'll get it. We don't want to take your money and sit on it for an unknown time period. If it were something like a SIG or STAG where we can get a price and a decent estimated delivery time it would have been different. For guns that aren't in stock at our distributors and neither we nor they know when they will become available again, we don't.
 
sbro,
We will not take money until we either have the item or we know exactly how much it will cost AND when we'll get it. We don't want to take your money and sit on it for an unknown time period. If it were something like a SIG or STAG where we can get a price and a decent estimated delivery time it would have been different. For guns that aren't in stock at our distributors and neither we nor they know when they will become available again, we don't.

You beat me to the post...Thanks for confirming that. I went in and had a good discussion with the crew the other day. My previous visit must have been when there was a lot of stress due to the potential gun ban talk. I grabbed the managers card and will discuss the options.
 
It's like charging your card and not shipping anything. Add to that sometimes the price will change and it won't be updated by the distributor until they get them in themselves.
 
These guys are tools from a retailer standpoint. Magpul has announced no changes to MSRP on PMAGS. SAA change in pricing is purely 'economics' according to a response I rec'd from a website inquiry I sent them.
Spend your money where you will. Caveat Emptor.
 
The store has them. Other places don't. If those other places get them in anytime soon, and don't raise their prices they will again be out of inventory very quickly unless they institute some form of rationing plan. It's kind of hard to run a business when you have nothing left to sell. And remember you're focusing on one single product. Lowers are just now catching up to what many were 6 months ago. Guns that aren't in high demand are still the same price. Anything that gets an increased demand has to have it's price match that demand or you'll see places having nothing left. And when they try to buy product to replace what they've sold, they either won't be able to, or the prices on replacement items will cost so much that the store won't be able to afford replacement. That will lead to closed doors and laid off employees. The big box stores can afford to do this because they have other departments (hunting, fishing, knives, hiking, camping, vehicles, kayaks, clothing, whatever) to float them. Gun stores do not.
 
This was a reply by the manager of the online business to one of his customers. It addresses why things are the way they are. It's a good read and applies to the store as well as most retails places really. I've noticed that those who own or run businesses and those who have say, economics degrees seem to be in agreement with what Dylan said.

As you are a rare individual who has refrained from vulgarity and have at least tried to make a reasoned case for your disagreement/rejection of our business practice I will respond to you. Not kidding, I do appreciate your rational response and observation and yes, even your critique and admonition.

I would first argue your parameters for this "artificial" demand (not quoting in any mocking connotation, only literally specifically quoting from your email). Previous surges in demand have had limited depth, granted, several through this past year when your "artificial" reference was applicable. However there have been at least a couple sincere times within the past twenty years, the '08/'09 extended panic (one we can draw from most recently) and of course the time surrounding the '94 ban that we have to pay attention to and remember some absolute lessons learned.

I doubt you would argue that this one were within right now, this '12/'13 AWB redux on steroids will have any less staying power than the '94 ban, and that was back before so many of us knew we were being denied something. It's safe to say so many of us have been awakened to what we've been denied and lost during that decade that our numbers are exponentially greater than '94. Also if we learned anything from the most recent '08/09 panic, this has the potential of lasting months as leftists drag this out, milking the opportunity to exact their revenge on the gun industry they've been denied for so long (and the predictable failure to reinstate the '94 ban in '04).

I would refer you to an article I found through drudge last week:

History of gun control is cautionary tale for those who want more regulations - The Washington Post

Granted this is a Washington Post article and it of course and obviously leans to one side verses ours, there's some history lessons to be found, informing what we're looking forward to. I only argue so strenuously against this "artificial" reference as I do not agree in the slightest. This will be at least as lengthy as the '08/'09 months of industry draining demand as well as comparable severity. My site is as empty as a grocery store before/during/after a hurricane. The only stuff remaining largely untouched from the demand are ammo cans, targets and some random parts. We do, yes, have some mags and ammo and yes, at the higher prices you are focused on. We are otherwise being bought out of business. And it is this point I have come to that justifies what we've done with our owned inventory. My business will hopefully outlast this or at least last as long as we can manage through this because we have not denied nor defied the insistent workings of a free market. The sincerely greater profits from what products we have still on our site and in our local gun store are buying us time as well as offsetting the increase in costs for replacement stock.

We've seen this before to at least some degree. Some of us were collectors during '94, eventually working in the industry through most of that decade, through Y2K, through every lesser congressional threats born from similar tragedies up until this one to end them all, possibly, if we're so unlucky.

We knew enough after the election to take such steps as to stock up on the obvious like Pmags and certain other obvious things. As a small business (not even a fraction of sites like CTD) we can, of course, only tie up so much of inventory funds in a single item type but we risked it. The unbelievable demand just from the election night and following days alone justified our investment. We saw two weeks of orders in that single day after the election. For seven days straight we saw a week's worth of orders a day, every day after the Friday shooting. This one only ended when we ran out of pretty much everything and yes, raised prices on the few items we had that demand insisted we increase our asking price or be bought out in hours.

Also, I've known the answer to "price gouging" for a while. These three articles by a libertarian and a couple of well known economists can explain the reality of so called "price gouging" much better than I can.

'Price gouging' in Florida - Thomas Sowell - [page]
Price gouging - Walter E. Williams - [page]
In praise of price gouging - John Stossel - [page]

I do not at all equate Pmags to gasoline or water of course, but I'm being accused by those who definitely seem to. The price is determined by the market, this in turn regulates the flow of supply and takes best care of negating the most unwarranted demand. In this instance, those collectors/investors who emptied my site (mid Sunday, of mags) through the first weekend after the shooting when we didn't raise prices are now deterred from emptying my site because we've better met the current market price. I have zero doubt that the heavy quantities ordered from Friday through Sunday at the about $12ea. price for Pmags were largely turned and sold in any and every other market out there from gun auctions to stores to forum classifieds. I don't argue against nor resent this, if I did it would negate my whole argument, but I'm not ignorant of it either.

As you can tell I've thought of this for a while and at length. I've been sitting here for 12-14 hour days every day save Christmas since Monday the 17th trying catch up. I've had some time to consider all of this. I do not offer you an apology nor an excuse about our actions, this is only an explanation.

If you only read this last paragraph then please know this, the obvious profits from what we've been selling are primarily going to try to buy us time. Our replacement costs will be higher as well as being farther away than you can imagine, our competitors are buying at least as much as we are to survive this as well.
 
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