Surplus 308

nwslopoke · Nov 7, 2017

I have never bought ammo online or in bulk before. Was eyeballing some Hertinberger, Malaysian and PMC. It's all apparently 1980s era. Looking online it seems ok but also hit and miss. I don't want to end up with 100s rounds of foul smelling duds.

MasterChief · Nov 7, 2017

I got the 540 Malaysian stuff.....doesn't smell, well packaged and have great reviews (for what it is) online. Hard to beat $0.37-0.40 a round in 7.62. JMO

Disclaimer....I have not shot it yet....but I did buy 2 ammo cans worth...

nwslopoke · Nov 7, 2017

MasterChief1 said:
I got the 540 Malaysian stuff.....doesn't smell, well packaged and have great reviews (for what it is) online. Hard to beat $0.37-0.40 a round in 7.62. JMO

Disclaimer....I have not shot it yet....but I did buy 2 ammo cans worth...

Thanks. I love PMC in 5.56 but it is a fair bit more. The Malaysian caught my eye. There are 300 rd cans I was going to try because l didn't want to commit to much on iffy ammo.

MasterChief · Nov 7, 2017

Agree on the PMC in 5.56....I like it too.

You may want to talk to @Basedgreaser I think he bought a 300rd can, not sure if he has shot yet though. I bought the ammo to go out and shoot, nothing precision, but just fun to pop off some rounds and some hit some steel and not worry about picking up berdan primed cases. Plus, I end up with 2 ammo cans for odds and ends.

ron · Nov 7, 2017

A few years ago some 308 surplus was on the market that destroyed some rifles!

The way ammo becomes surplus is it is judged as not being safe or effective. Stored
in very hot, humid or cold conditions for many years shortens the estimated life span.
I had some 1980's surplus 308 that hand hang fires and failure to fire.

Find for plinking at beer cans but don't expect accuracy. I was talking to a
guy at the range shooting his new M1A Super Match. He was disappointed
in the poor accuracy. I asked him what ammo he was shooting. 308 surplus!
The 147 grain FMJ military round is the most inaccurate 308 I have ever shot.

The Heretic · Nov 7, 2017

ron said:
A few years ago some 308 surplus was on the market that destroyed some rifles!
The way ammo becomes surplus is it is judged as not being safe or effective. Stored
in very hot, humid or cold conditions for many years shortens the estimated life span.
I had some 1980's surplus 308 that hand hang fires and failure to fire.
Find for plinking at beer cans but don't expect accuracy. I was talking to a
guy at the range shooting his new M1A Super Match. He was disappointed
in the poor accuracy. I asked him what ammo he was shooting. 308 surplus!
The 147 grain FMJ military round is the most inaccurate 308 I have ever shot.

Not necessarily all inexpensive bulk ammo is old ammo, and not all older ammo is junk.

A lot of bulk ammo is current manufacture that is overruns or simply made for the current market. The market sets the price and it wants cheap ammo so they make ammo with FMJ projectiles because those are made in the billions for the military and they save on scale.

That said, if you are buying for practice then bulk ball ammo is okay.

But if I want effective self-defense ammo, then I buy either hunting or self-defense ammo, not bulk FMJ. I still buy bulk FMJ but only for practice and function checking of a gun and magazine. Yes, expanding ammo is much more expensive, in part because they know they can charge more for it - but it is also much more effective and if SHTF runs out, I will be loading my mags with self-defense ammo (tested to make sure it works in the gun) and when that runs out then I will fall back on the ball ammo I have stored for practice/training and functional checking.

With any ammo you want to shoot enough of it to make sure your gun and mags function properly with it. I have a SIG P227 that functions fine with the ten round mags, but every single 14 rd. mag (I have six of them) does not work until I replace the mag spring.

Too many people do not test their whole system - especially if the ammo is expensive. It will be a bad day when they go to use their expensive self-defense ammo and it does not work well in their gun because they did not test it first.

B5Ben · Nov 7, 2017

I have some MAL 762 from the 82 or 83 and its been fine. I cant recall offhand what the other surplus ammo is that I have but its been good too. I would adjust expectations to the range of functioning and minute of man but I would think it would be fine if you aren't expecting more than what it is. I use mine at 550 yards and it hits a 30" gong regularly out of my AR-10.

GOG · Nov 7, 2017

I like Lake City ammo. It works well for my needs and has always been reliable.

nwslopoke · Nov 7, 2017

I went for a smaller pack of the Malaysian. 300 rds. Trying it out first. I am pretty stingy with my ammo. Maybe this will free me to run this thing properly. At about $8.70 a box of 20 it's more or less what I pay for 5.56 at Wally's.

Camelfilter · Nov 7, 2017

Of what u mention we have only actually bought and fired the Hertenberger. It's very good, highly recommend.

Of the rounds I've handled/fired, haven't seen any I'd pull as questionable. Have seen less than a handful with more than moderately tarnished brass. But not pitted or anything. That's out of 2 cases of the ?960 count.

Some are berdan primed (non reloadable), while some are boxer primed - reloadable if you are setup to remove the crimp. I am, have a super swage which works a charm.

Traded a bunch off as well to another forum member, and I wouldn't have done so if I wasn't 100% on them.

We've also run a whole bunch of this through our CETME/PTR's. Fluted chambers do a real number on any brass. Processed a small bunch of the boxered brass which looked to be hurting as a practice. Came out looking real fine.

-mind that I don't reload rifle yet, so not sure on how out of spec that brass is as would be compared to being run through a gas gun.

But in short summary 2 thumbs up on the Hertenberger!

Also, depending on price points, I highly recommend PPU M80 ball as well. New manufacture, boxer primed (reloadable). Been solely running that in the gas guns, Ruger Precision Rifle and Mossberg MVP (yup! But just working on breathing / trigger so far, not for Precision - no distance beyond 200). Very economical and very nice brass.

Haven't chronographed either one (no point really in what we're doing/function/drill/breathing skills), but from purely subjective observations the Hertenberger appears to be "hotter".

Camelfilter · Nov 7, 2017

Although you asked about wether or not they fired...

Heres a pic of the Hert boxer brass after dacpping, rolling in stainless media (touch of dawn, a sprinkle of lemishine) and swaged:

(From my thread here)

How to go about prepping surplus 7.62x51 crimped brass?

This is 1980 manufacturing, there might be another year or few which is boxered as well, but folks do not let you choose. They just ship whatever.

Note that I thought I had a "pre" picture of how gnarley this brass looked prior to processing up on here, but can't locate it. Anyways that brass had sat wet in a ziplock for a long while before I could get to it.

Gnarly is a huge understatement. I thought it would not be salvageable-Black/green etc, you get the idea. Nope. Cleaned up super!

USMC-03 · Nov 7, 2017

As mentioned, surplus 7.62N ammo with the standard 147 grain FMJ bullet is notoriously the weak accuracy link in the rifle system. Some of it is better than others for accuracy but I've never encountered reliability problems. I also have a bunch of it stashed away.

But let's remember, the overall 7.62N battle rifle platform was never intended for extended ranges beyond 300 meters. Even the most common military rifle seldom, in standard issue form, had sights that elevated to more than 300 or 400 meters. It serves the intended purpose.

Ura-Ki · Nov 7, 2017

I have had great experience with the M-80 ball "Battle Packs" I picked up several years ago. It is more then acceptable accuracy wise, and runs flawlessly through every thing I have tried it in. It's not match accuracy, but for ranges out to about 800 meters, it's min of baddy, and dead is dead, no need to be fancy with it!
I ran into a few close out deals at both Sportsmans and Bimart the same day. Sportsmans had 20 round boxes of Fed gold match 165 gr. Matchkings for $18.97 a box, no limits. And Bimart had Fed blue box hunting 165gr BTSP for $11.95 after rebate, no limits. Bought out the stock of both and have run a few boxes through the FAL to see how it liked them! Accuracy was awesome with both, and the brass is of excellent quality. Went back the first week of deer season and stocked up on .30/06 180 gr. for the same price of $11.95 no limits. Went to three Bimarts and cleaned them out!!!!! Sportsmans had 100 round bulk Serria match king loaded in both .308 and .30/06 so I bought out all they had! Point is, shop around a little, there are awesome deals to be had.

rcnpthfndr · Nov 7, 2017

south African, Hirtenberger, Portuguese battle packs were all great stuff back in the 90s. I forget what country had the hot stuff. if I was home I have a book where I kept track of that stuff. in a FAL or G3 there were a couple surplus that they would rip the rim off instead of ejecting the case.

you always have to sigh when you see someone complaining about accuracy with a 5k+ rig only to find out they are shooting mil surp ball

tac · Nov 8, 2017

THE stuff to stay away from in droves is anything made by OFV - Ordnance Factory Vindaloo - of India.

It goes 'phut' or 'KA-boom' - nothing in the middle. In a FAL the 'phut' barely cracks the action open, and the 'KA-boom' feels like you've closed the gas-block off.

Stay away.

tac