Suggested Shotgun Shells for Home Defense?

[CountryGent]

For the defensive shotguns, we've normally stuck with 2¾" 00-buck (in 12s), though others in one of them (the 20). Though I have liked the "mini-buck" 00-buck 2¼" shells in the (duly registered) sawed-off (11" barrel) SxS. Too each their own.

 

[No_Regerts]

It all depends on where you live and what the likely threats would be. My uncle is a trauma surgeon in Dallas and can attest to the effectiveness of smaller shot when indoors.

My parents live on acreage and sometimes have to keep critters away from livestock. Since there is 200 to 300 yards between neighbors, Dad keeps 00 buck and slugs in his guns.

 

[Geardo]

Taco_Lean,

I have to respectfully disagree....I mean, what if I pick up the wrong shotgun to defend my home with?
"wait mr. intruder! I have the wrong shotgun. Stay there and I'll be right back with the proper weapon. I won't be but a second! There's cookies on the counter if you're hungry!"
HA! Man, get real.

Lol wut! Do you sleep on a big pile of fudd guns? Leave the hunting guns locked in the safe and the HD gun next to the bed.

 

[Geardo]

you are watching too much TV.

Alright. I give up. Spent an entire day arguing over this stupid bubblegum.

Up to you to decide what you and your families life is worth.

 

[Argonaut]

This is the real defense in my house. He weighs close to 150 lbs.....and there are 3 of them......always on duty. If needed, I will back them up. No one gets through my gate unchallenged.

 

[Kruel J]

This is the real defense in my house. He weighs close to 150 lbs.....and there are 3 of them......always on duty. If needed, I will back them up. No one gets through my gate unchallenged. View attachment 456033View attachment 456034

Yep, a good dog or three is the best alarm system money can buy. My Rot-Pit mix isn't a big guy (he was the runt) but wow would he give anyone a run for their money. And enough time for me to react.

 

[Certaindeaf]

View attachment 456001 At 20 feet my 1938 Schuler hand built trap gun would cut a hole through a person like a 70 caliber rifle.

yeabut if that was a pump all you'd have to do is rack it and the bad guy would turn into a pillar of salt even if it was empty!

 

[SnapShot]

My opinion.... pretty much any shotgun shell will put huge gaping holes in things at close range. (home defense) it may or may not be important to you to think about over penetration.

I would avoid any specialty rounds.... if it comes down to you going to court... after you win the confrontation at home...you dont want to give any prosecuting atttny. any reason to use your choice of ammo against you.

 

[DLS]

... if it comes down to you going to court... after you win the confrontation at home...you dont want to give any prosecuting atttny. any reason to use your choice of ammo against you.

Which is why what is said and used is so important. Never "shoot to kill" or "shoot to wound". "Shoot to STOP". By stop we mean the reason for the shooting was to STOP the bad actors dangerous actions. Along these lines a non-military use of a firearm should be called that ... a firearm or a gun. We don't use weapons! This is not a semantics game ... simply saying the wrong word can get you jail time.

Before anyone pushes back on this ... I'm a former Marine who comes from a long line of Marines. I know the difference between a "weapon and a gun" but I also know the difference between the military culture and the civilian culture! If you don't know the difference pay Gunny Ermey a tribute and watch Full Metal Jacket!

Additionally, when calling for support request an ambulance and police ... in that order. When asked why give a description along the lines of "... broke into my home and he FORCED be to shoot him". Then shut up until you have an attorney.

If pressured by the police (and you will be ... it's their duty to make sure this was not a murder staged to look like a PD shooting) state something like "I will cooperate fully with your investigation, but right now I'm rattled because of what the intruder forced me to do. I need to get my bearings first and will tell you everything once I've consulted with a mental health provider and attorney". If they still keep pushing they are on shaky ground because you have requested council ... but you can ask them "doesn't your department provide psychological care when an officer has to shoot his someone?" They will get the point ... even if they don't like it.

It's a shame that we need to lawyer up on something like this. Honest and innocent folks want to be found to be "in the okay" and they want that to happen right away! It's natural, but in our desire to clear our name we can say things that will be taken out of context or misinterpreted. After using deadly force one's state of mind is anything but cool and clear thinking ... unless you are a sociopath.

I bring this up because some of the language in this thread makes me cringe when I think of how that could be used against the victim (which is the person forced to shoot, not the bad actor) during an investigation.

FWIW ... thoughts anyone?

 

[DLS]

...I would avoid any specialty rounds...

I totally agree with this one. What I've done in the past is to write a letter to my local LEO office, describing myself as a citizen that wants to properly protect his family while protecting others from inadvertent harm. Ask what type of round they would recommend and use that. Keep the letter they return to you. It shows good faith.

Barring that at least ask the local LEOs you come into contact with what rounds they carry, at least for their sidearm. It would be hard to paint a PD shooter in a negative light if they were using the same rounds as uniformed officers. Your lawyer could point out good faith on your part in that you yielded to the "in-depth wisdom and research" the department undertook when arming their officers.

Years ago I would never have said this. Remember NYPD going to the Glock and requiring 12 pound triggers, 10-round magazines and FMJ bullets? Anymore most departments do make use of good ballistic research and carry appropriate rounds. Even the NYPD uses hollow-point rounds now, but they still demand the heavy trigger and curtailed magazine capacity but that is fodder for another thread.

This may not be so useful for shotguns however, as uniformed patrol officers face many different scenarios where a shotgun would be used, not just a short-range inside a dwelling type of scenario. There is more need for penetrating type of rounds (say slugs) and longer distance engagement. This does change what could be considered the ideal ammo to carry. But specifically asking for recommendations on close range, indoor use of a shotgun may provide good material.

 

[Geardo]

thoughts anyone?

100% agree.

Shoot to STOP. I mention trauma and wounding a lot in this thread only because I don't want to rely on a psychological stop, I want a physiological stop!

 

[Joe13]

Which is why what is said and used is so important. Never "shoot to kill" or "shoot to wound". "Shoot to STOP". By stop we mean the reason for the shooting was to STOP the bad actors dangerous actions. Along these lines a non-military use of a firearm should be called that ... a firearm or a gun. We don't use weapons! This is not a semantics game ... simply saying the wrong word can get you jail time.

Before anyone pushes back on this ... I'm a former Marine who comes from a long line of Marines. I know the difference between a "weapon and a gun" but I also know the difference between the military culture and the civilian culture! If you don't know the difference pay Gunny Ermey a tribute and watch Full Metal Jacket!

Additionally, when calling for support request an ambulance and police ... in that order. When asked why give a description along the lines of "... broke into my home and he FORCED be to shoot him". Then shut up until you have an attorney.

If pressured by the police (and you will be ... it's their duty to make sure this was not a murder staged to look like a PD shooting) state something like "I will cooperate fully with your investigation, but right now I'm rattled because of what the intruder forced me to do. I need to get my bearings first and will tell you everything once I've consulted with a mental health provider and attorney". If they still keep pushing they are on shaky ground because you have requested council ... but you can ask them "doesn't your department provide psychological care when an officer has to shoot his someone?" They will get the point ... even if they don't like it.

It's a shame that we need to lawyer up on something like this. Honest and innocent folks want to be found to be "in the okay" and they want that to happen right away! It's natural, but in our desire to clear our name we can say things that will be taken out of context or misinterpreted. After using deadly force one's state of mind is anything but cool and clear thinking ... unless you are a sociopath.

I bring this up because some of the language in this thread makes me cringe when I think of how that could be used against the victim (which is the person forced to shoot, not the bad actor) during an investigation.

FWIW ... thoughts anyone?

Great post

 

[DLS]

100% agree.

Shoot to STOP. I mention trauma and wounding a lot in this thread only because I don't want to rely on a psychological stop, I want a physiological stop!

We are on the same page!

The discussion on trauma / wounding or overall effectiveness is not what is causing me to cringe. In fact it's a good topic for someone who is truly interested in providing legal and moral self-defense to themselves and others. It's when language of "killing" "weapons" etc. come up that I worry.

Even a statement like the sound of a slide action being pumped will "make the bad guy think twice" is problematic. That can be perceived as you were out to "teach the guy a lesson" which places the PD shooter in a different state of mind over that of trying to "protect life and limb". That subtle difference can be the difference between conviction and acquittal.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Handloads can be pretty good.

 

[Joe13]

Handloads can be pretty good.

Pot stirrer lol

 

[Geardo]

We are on the same page!

The discussion on trauma / wounding or overall effectiveness is not what is causing me to cringe. In fact it's a good topic for someone who is truly interested in providing legal and moral self-defense to themselves and others. It's when language of "killing" "weapons" etc. come up that I worry.

Even a statement like the sound of a slide action being pumped will "make the bad guy think twice" is problematic. That can be perceived as you were out to "teach the guy a lesson" which places the PD shooter in a different state of mind over that of trying to "protect life and limb". That subtle difference can be the difference between conviction and acquittal.

Yep. ! Was for emphasis not anger.

 

[AlphaFreeze]

This is what I use. The good good.

 

[Geardo]

On the totally wrong side of the spectrum, my wife uses these because they are the only 20 gauge load we could find with light enough recoil for her. Basically a 44 mag for energy.

5 Round Box 20 Gauge Dupo 1476 FPS Ammo at SGAmmo

 

[DeanMk]

Re: Legalities and talking to the cops after the fact...

Honesty is your best friend.

Most of us know when we're being lied to.
Most of us aren't as slick at lying as we would like to think we are.
People trained to see through the BS, WILL see through any BS they're being fed, so don't give them any.
Yeah, I shot the SOB.
There was someone in my home that I;
A) didn't know was there
...and...
B) sure as hell didn't invite over!
I was startled and I knew I had a shotgun in the closet, so I armed myself.
I didn't know what to expect, but I wasn't going to take any chances, so when he lunged at me, you bet your bippy I shot!
...by the time you get there, only the biggest a'whole is going to continue questioning.
Just be honest and cooperative and the truth will reveal itself.


Dean

 

[DLS]

Hello Dean,

I really am not trying to start a flame war or anything like that, and I don't think you are either.

However...

I have to strongly disagree with your post.

The police are duty bound to investigate the shooting, this is as it should be. You will be looked at as a perp until evidence proves otherwise, again this is as it should be. They are going to push every button they can, even after you get to the "by the time you get there" point in the conversation. They will not be an a'whole for doing this ... they will be doing their job. Murder made to look like PD happens, and it's their job ensure that this is or is not what happened.

And...

Police are not perfect, as is true for all of us. They make mistakes, bring to the scenario certain bias and blinders. Some are outright dishonest ... so too are some prosecutors. Even if they are stellar folks, police and prosecutors are overworked, under staffed in most jurisdictions and spend so much time with the bad elements that they can't help be begin to see everybody in that light. They want to get the job done and move on ... just like every other human on the planet.

So, if you want to take the risk by being "honest" that's your prerogative. But I will do as I have posted earlier. State my full cooperation is coming as soon as I care for my mental health and secure an attorney. There is nothing dishonest in that. And I hope nothing I've posted indicates there should be dishonesty ... as I'm adamant that honesty is the only way to go. But that does not mean I need to spill my guts then and there when I'm reeling from the situation I just found myself forced into. My honest contribution to the investigation will have to wait a bit until I'm better able and better protected.

There are many honest folks serving time because they did exactly what you describe. In fact, the deck is so stacked in the police's favor that this is the very reason "lawyering up" is not only in the code, but recommended by virtually anybody who deals with use of force issues. There is too much at stake to do otherwise.

At least for me ... this is just one guys take on the issue.

Cheers!