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stupid question

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by rdt, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    Just getting ready to do my first hand loading. I didnt put it together that the rcbs .45 AR RN die set is not for ACP. the "AR" notation wasnt just there for looks apparently - "AR" as in Auto Rim. I only caught it cause i noticed the "use with shell holder #8" on the box after i picked up a #3 (for 45acp) at the store and started asking questions, and finally looked up what uses a #8.

    so heres my stupid question - can i use the die with SH#3 to do 45acp?
     
  2. WhitneyPrecision

    WhitneyPrecision Lane County Member

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    From another forum:
    45 Auto Rim is 45ACP with a rim on the back to avoid having to use moon clips in 45ACP revolvers. You can shoot 45 AR in a 45ACP REVOLVER without fussing with the moon clips. Great for the range. I understand that reloading for 45 AR (if you are already setup for 45 ACP is pretty painless.

    Sounds like it may very well work... but keep in mind that the RN stands for round nose.
    You will want to acquire another seater die for the wad cutters.
     
  3. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Yes the dies should be exactly the same, just different shellholders
     
  4. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Just be sure to make a few dummys and test for going into full battery before you do live rounds. Much safer to tweak that way.
    I have also found using a very lite taper crimp stop any issues with case mouth snaging on ocassion. It is amazing what 4 or 5 thousandths of an inch will do.
     
  5. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    hey thanks guys. the 45ar dies do not say "taper crim" on them like the instructions in the die box say they would if they were, sooooooo. . .
     
  6. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    I had the same confusion on crimp dies. A pretty good rule of thumb I have started using is

    If it is a semi auto use taper crimp. If it is a revolver use a roll crimp
    Die makers make it simple for guys like me.. The dies are made for the correct type crimp fot the cartridge. A 9mm, 40 sw, 45 acp will be a taper crimp.
    38 spl, 45 long colt 41mag would use a roll crimp.

    I begin crimping 45's because I would have, from the same batch of rounds about 1 in 20 or so stick and not go into battery. Had a knowledgeable guy explain to me that you want a coke bottle like feel on the round. I put less then 5/1000 of taper crimp and problem is gone
     
  7. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    thank you mark, very clear. however, the 45ar is a 45acp round for use in the M1917 revolver, so does my die taper crimp (cause its a 45acp) or roll (cause its for the M1917, a revolver)? bwah ha ha ha! why do i always have to do things the hard way the first time?

    i guess another way to answer this question is whether the 45ar headspaces on the rim or the mouth? if it headspaces on the rim, it would be a taper crimp and the rim serves NO purpose other than as an integrated shim (eliminating the moon clips needed when using 45acp rounds in the M1917).

    FYI: some s&w m1917 revolvers has stepped chambers to permit mouth headspacing 45acp in emergencies. I have seen pictures of 45ar with both roll and taper crimps here (about 1/3 of the way down):

    http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/162307-what-difference-between-roll-crimp-taper-crimp.html

    those were built with different seater dies, correct? (besides because of the different bullet profiles)
     
  8. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    wheel guns headspace off the rim. auto headspace off the mouth of the case. If it was me I would run a small bath with a roll crimp and test them. In geberal I roll crimp for wheelguns.
     
  9. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    Ok, heres the answer: the .45 AR dies can be used to reload .45 ACP except the very last step: crimping.
     
  10. Browning55

    Browning55 Seattle-Everett Area Active Member

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    I like the idea of making dummy rounds first. Good advice.
     
  11. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    I"m pretty sure that push come to shove,you can apply enough crimp with that set to function ok,but the correct set of dies would be a whole lot better way to go.
    A test round or two will tell the tale.
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to crimping I don't use any seater die for the crimp stage anymore. I use the LEE Factory Crimp Die, especially on all my auto-load pistol calibers. The Factory Crimp die for these cartridges is easily adjustable for the amount of crimp you desire and it also makes sure there are no "bumps" that will keep the cartridge from fully chambering. This is done with a "sizing ring" at the mouth of the die that "irons out" any bulges or the like. Gives a nice finished round that will chamber every time. A good finish step. I use one on Station 5 on my Dillon progressive so I don't even notice that this finish step is being done. For single stage loaders it doesn't take much time to run all the finished rounds through this step. I do it when I do my final inspection on all my rifle rounds that I still load "single stage".
     
  13. Abiqua

    Abiqua Oregon Active Member

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    Another thumbs up for the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I also use mine in station 5 on my Dillon and like deadshot2 said, it's extremely easy to set up and it does a fantastic job. At around $15, it's a bargain.
     
  14. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    I also prefer a seperate crimp die because 2 dies..seater and crimper..are easier to adjust than on multi-function die is.been doing that way forever.
     
  15. Dizle

    Dizle albany, oregon Member

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    i load like throck does, i hate the multi function seater/crimper....ill use it for a seating die and buy a lee fac crimp die