Stupid idea.... off road JEEP frame/suspension ideas

[CamoDeafie]

I've been brewing an idea in my head. But I honestly can't tell if its gonna work, or if its gonna require either super wide fender flares or serious cutting of half shafts...

H1 suspension components and driveline onto a Jeep frame. Basically a M151 with supersized suspension components. Probably 4 cyl diesel engine if theres no room for anything bigger? Thinking TJ Wrangler would be best, its bigger than the old CJ5s and has a beefier frame?

Of course this is just ideas but... again I aint sure if it would work at all, especially with the packaging around the beefy suspension components someone here talked about acquiring H1 suspension parts and attaching to big truck frames?

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[Jonnyuma]

I can't speak to the viability of grafting H1 portal axles to a Jeep frame, but I can say that the TJ is a pretty stout buggy in it's own right for most off-roading.

For brute strength a D60-up rear and HP D44-up front will more than handle the relatively light weight of the Jeep, be easier to source (3/4 and 1T trucks) and be MUCH less expensive to mount by a conventional coil and/or leaf spring arrangement. Those could probably even be professionally cut/narrowed (so they don't look ridiculous), rebuilt, regeared, and have the new spring perches/pockets welded on before you even get near the cost of bringing the used-up H1 gear home.
For ultimate beef, you could go with Rockwells or even custom made axles, but now we're talking about real money... low-mileage used TJ type of money.

I would never dare to say "it can't be done", but I will say it's gonna take some real engineering and a pile of money.

In my racing days we used to say, "Fast. Reliable. Cheap... pick two.". This is similar.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well what impressed me was the fact that the H1 achieves 16" ground clearance.... even with 37s and relatively short travel granted..... I don't know if 37s on solid axles under a Jeep would get the same amount of ground clearance between the bottom of the differential and the ground?

Its why I am thinking short of installing portal hubs/axles; maybe a full independent suspension is doable? Again, I'm just throwing ideas out.... too many ideas, no money or shop to build em

Edit; I'm aware that the H1 actually has independent portal axles/hubs as opposed to the smaller Volvo C340 and Unimog solid axle portals

Edit #2 ×
Who in the US or even Europe makes portal hubs/reduction hubs for other 4 wheel independent suspensions? Maybe good option for a 4 wheel independent awd/4x4 vehicle (like the small Toyota SUVs and the Volvo XC series, heck Subarus too?)

 

[Jonnyuma]

Again, I'm just throwing ideas out.... too many ideas, no money or shop to build em

Pretty common among us commoners .

Lack of money won't keep us from dreaming, can't even keep us from achieving.... you just have to be smarter than the project and willing to learn.

When I'm tempted to complain, I like to think about all of the great post-WWII hot rodders who did so much, including launch multi-national, billion dollar companies, from a crapcan shed in their back yard or rented shop space in seedy Los Angeles.

Innovation and persistence. THAT'S what makes things happen.

 

[CamoDeafie]

An old Subaru Brat on 37s riding with portals would probably kick ample butt..... one real simple and potentially cheap route to a portal axled, leaf sprung early Jeep sized vehicle would be to grab the UAZ portal axles from Russia... and mount them to a CJ3 sized vehicle... or a Suzuki Samurai. But research tells me they have a tendency to have real bad axle shafts and a terribly slow reduction gear... however the way they did them is nothing short of simple.. its basically a large toothed ring on the wheel side, with the drive axle having a spur gear on the inside diameter of the ring gear. This enabled them to rotate the same direction, and have a little lift of about 3 inches from what I could read up on these axles..

 

[USMC1911]

On this kind of project you usually build the buggy around the suspension you want not the other way around. That H1 is one wide beast and going to be a real challenge to make work in such a narrow frame like a cj or wrangler.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I have not been able to find the information on the frame width of the H1, or how huge the A arm units are... there is a guy using the H1 portal hubs to build solid custom portal axles for rock bouncers and buggies... but the closest system I could find are these for UTVs ... Portal Gear Lifts | SuperATV
Now maybe these could work in a CJ2 or Mahindra sized compact SUVs but I'm not sure if they would be good in a slightly larger CJ5 or Wrangler size?

 

[notazombie]

I've done a little work on an H1. They are really big and ridiculously beefy. Anything can be done with enough time and money.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I've done a little work on an H1. They are really big and ridiculously beefy. Anything can be done with enough time and money.

Yeah.. thats part of my concern... I do wonder if it would be easier to get a set of short A arms welded up and to attach the H1 portal hubs and such to them, and use them in a Jeep Wranger frame setup.. probably would require custom half shafts if the IFS/IRS drivelines from a similar sized compact SUV. I'm not sure which of the recent Jeep compact SUVs are using 4 wheel independent suspensions

 

[erslll]

What is it your are going to be doing with this rig? If ground clearance is an issue, IFS/IRS is not the best system, IMHO. When one tire goes up on an obstacle, you actually loose clearance in the middle of the rig.

As mentioned before, with the amount of work/$$$$ involved in this project, seems like you would be better off just building a buggy. You are going to have to do a lot of work to a factory frame that might as well be spent just making your own frame.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'm just throwing ideas. There's no realistic ways short of marrying a millionaire for me personally to make all the project ideas I have before I get too old lol

Here is what I would like to see.
1) differentials tucked up into the frame

2) massive ground clearance with portal hubs, somehow

3) CJ5/Wrangler sized and not looking like a rock bouncer buggy or similar, as cool as they are..


Something different, thats not a RZR/side by side UTV, and not a solid axled vehicle because thats practically everywhere

Doesnt need to be a rock crawler buggy, or a seriously lifted mud bog buggy...

Well ideally... a M151 on 37-40s with portal hubs but M151s are practically impossible to find cheap, so the next best thing? Build one with either a CJ5 or Wrangler body.
Problem so far... the portal hubs are either enormous, expensive, or made for RZR buggies. I really don't know if these units would work for a Wrangler sized vehicle with a beefy, likely custom fully boxed ladder frame as opposed to a buggy style tube cage frame..

 

[erslll]

So what are you going to use it for? What is it that you need all this ground clearance for?

 

[CamoDeafie]

So what are you going to use it for? What is it that you need all this ground clearance for?

Why do people climb the mountain... because its there.
Also.... I hate seeing good vehicles getting high centered on simple creek beds granted solid portal axles would work but the units available are either reverse rotation or way too big hub to hub to keep the compactness, or of questionable quality (the Ural ones)... which is why the 4 wheel independent with portals idea... and not being huge and heavy.

Why do anyone need more than 5 guns? Or 2 vehicles, or more than one tv....

Really, its more... i have not seen one done like so, so why not??

 

[erslll]

All I'm saying is ground clearance for the sake of saying you have ground clearance doesn't do you much good unless it helps you actually accomplish something. If you are just trying to drive over at stump that is XX" tall, then great.

This is my CJ. Not the most ground clearance in the world but it works pretty good anyway.












Good luck with your build. Let us know how it works when you are done.

 

[CamoDeafie]

All I'm saying is ground clearance for the sake of saying you have ground clearance doesn't do you much good unless it helps you actually accomplish something. If you are just trying to drive over at stump that is XX" tall, then great.

This is my CJ. Not the most ground clearance in the world but it works pretty good anyway.

Pic broken?
One could probably find a way to use all the ground clearance and still not look like a tube frame rock buggy

 

[CamoDeafie]

Back to the original post... it is a stupid idea isnt it to try to shoehorn H1 suspension components and portal hubs into a Wrangler sized frame?

 

[Jonnyuma]

Back to the original post... it is a stupid idea isnt it to try to shoehorn H1 suspension components and portal hubs into a Wrangler sized frame?

Not stupid... just impractical.
Taking what is arguably the best and toughest axle/suspension set up and mating it to a vintage CJ or SUV is just a logical extrapolation of what is already cool... like shoehorning a Hellcat Hemi into a 'Cuda or Challenger, adding formula 1 suspension, IRS, and all the racebred goodies to make it handle like a slot car and mind-alteringly fast. That's been dreamt up and executed, impractical as it is.

The apparent fact that nobody has made a viable run at what you're suggesting (that I know of) added to what I know about H1s and body-on-frame SUVs leads me to the conclusion that it's even more impractical (to build) than a 1500 hp 50 yr old Mopar E body.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Not stupid... just impractical.
Taking what is arguably the best and toughest axle/suspension set up and mating it to a vintage CJ or SUV is just a logical extrapolation of what is already cool... like shoehorning a Hellcat Hemi into a 'Cuda or Challenger, adding formula 1 suspension, IRS, and all the racebred goodies to make it handle like a slot car and mind-alteringly fast. That's been dreamt up and executed, impractical as it is.

The apparent fact that nobody has made a viable run at what you're suggesting (that I know of) added to what I know about H1s and body-on-frame SUVs leads me to the conclusion that it's even more impractical (to build) than a 1500 hp 50 yr old Mopar E body.

There was a Hellcat motored 1970 something showcased on Discovery's Fast ' N' Loud... built by Gas Monkey Garage.
Also, I've been watching Diesel Brothers on Hulu... some fascinating builds. (Like the Fail of the Year UTV with MRAP or something military axles )

 

[DirectDrive]

...I do wonder if it would be easier to get a set of short A arms welded up...

When you start welding things up, that's when the dreaming starts to become reality.
Your brand of dreaming is going to require welding skills.