Stuck in Traffic When SHTF

[AMProducts]

I have a bunch of "ammo boxes" - been stocking up on them this year.

Cabelas periodically has a sale on theirs - they do right now - larger than an MTM .50 cal. box for $7 each. Free shipping on orders over $99

I put stuff in those boxes for a couple of reasons:

1) If I don't, it gets scattered and dirty and takes up more room.
2) To keep it from getting wet or mildewy.
3) To keep it from getting punctured/suffering from abrasion/etc.

Finally, if I need to haul something else, it is very easy to remove, then put back in when I am done.

I'm kinda've a nut when it comes to boxes, probably because I rather regularly design paper product boxes, and worry about all of the packaging stuff for different products. Plastic ammo cans are sometimes a sore spot, the plastics engineers always want draft on their boxes, which means no straight sides to pack other boxes that do have straight sides in and eventually all that additive error just makes life difficult. For 50 cal size, I usually just stick with regular metal 50 cal cans, I have a source who works on a military base, and I usually buy the cans from him by the pallet load. The difficulty has been replacing the 30cal can which has largely been phased out of military service (all .30 cal is now packed in paper cartons that go inside a 50 cal can).

So far of the plastic ammo cans, I really like the new Berry's cans, but they are quite proud of their cans and want a rather strange premium on them. But for the SAWC of the can, they're the most durable and size efficient out there. I usually end up getting the HF cans, because they're ~$5, are waterproof-ish and stand up well to the contents.

Those MTM flat ammo cans, I can't remember wtf they call them now, are a really nice medium, I'm not sure they would stand up to stacking ammo as deep as I do, but for lighter weight stuff they're great. I have a few I keep my radio gear in, at some point I need to get more.

I have a big Hardigg case I use for all my personal gear when I go camping/hunting. I can throw it in the back of my jeep, or the back of my truck, and no matter where I'm going my sleeping bag is always clean and dry when I get there. I would love to get some more of them, but given what they cost new, I'll wait around until I can find some more surplus.

 

[mjbskwim]

Move out of the city and stay off the freeways?
Oh wait,I already did that
I depends so much on how far from everything you are and what the threat is.
I would have a GHB and next to it would be a semi auto 308 rifle
But that's just me

 

[308]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879922095450656

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Yeah, big talk! It's not cars and dinette sets ya have to worry about! It's .308 on up!

 

[best defense]

Nothing specific comes to mind, but several years ago there were some terrorists shooting people who were on their way into a big office complex back east. I think it was the CIA office or something like that. The people who were shot were all in their cars. If you really do find yourself in that kind of situation, one of the best things you can do is try to get your vehicle off to the side of the road and get out. You are much more mobile on your feet than you are when stuck in a car. That makes you a much more difficult target, and gives you more places to take cover.

One of the problems in the situation back east is that by law none of those people were allowed to carry firearms because of being in the DC belt-way.

 

[BigStick]

• I will have to cross the Willamette to get home if I am at work when things go bad. I do ride a motorcycle to work most days, so if I had to traffic can mostly be bypassed, but if the shut down the bridges (or they fall down) it could get rough.
• So I actually keep a big backpack sized dry bag and a box of supplies at work. Not 9nly will it keep my stuff dry while I swim across the Willamette, it will act as a floatation device. And I will have dry clothes and gear on the other side. Still trying to decide the best place to try to cross though.

 

[CoastRange57]

Vehicle...

#1 offensive and defensive weapon. When you exit your vehicle you lose the upperhand on those who are outside of their vehicles.

#2 driving placement in the road. Where are you in the road? How much room did you leave between yourself and the person ahead of you? Do you have enough to gain a little momentum to force a wedge between the cars to your left or right? Do you have a tow strap? It doesn't take much force to jerk the rear of a vehicle if you have the room so you can get your personal vehicle out of the center lane.​

Flashlights, in every vehicle.
Knife in every vehicle
(sorry don't have a bag in my vehicles yet)
Oklahoma credit card is a must in vehicles if you plan to use it in an escape plan.

I'll make it home. My cars are in working order and I'm not afraid of physical damage on the outside of it.

Stay away from the middle lanes whenever possible. Every light or traffic control device, I am always looking for an "out". If I have to bend my metal or some one elses metal , oh well. Punch the 4wd button and put the throttle to it.

Get away from multi lane freeways as soon as possible, but arm up in the process of getting there. Text, do not use your cell phone, too much bandwidth required.

 

[best defense]

• I will have to cross the Willamette to get home if I am at work when things go bad. I do ride a motorcycle to work most days, so if I had to traffic can mostly be bypassed, but if the shut down the bridges (or they fall down) it could get rough.
• So I actually keep a big backpack sized dry bag and a box of supplies at work. Not 9nly will it keep my stuff dry while I swim across the Willamette, it will act as a floatation device. And I will have dry clothes and gear on the other side. Still trying to decide the best place to try to cross though.

There is that new suspension bridge that is supposed to be for bicycles and pedestrians only, but if it is still up, you could navigate in on a motorcycle. If things are that bad, the police will be too busy to enforce anything along those lines.

 

[SigFanWA]

Earthquake in Portland, OR = Your walking home.

Good pair of boots, backpack with essentials, gun, ammo, clips.

 

[Martini_Up]

"never get out of the boat unless you're going all the way"

if you have to leave it's because you think staying will get you killed. if you leave, get away from the 'kill zone' as fast as possible and get to a safe place.

as many here are already pointing out, you should already have gear in place for that endeavor.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Anyone brought up comfy hiking shoes Or foot care? Spare socks, foot podwer, vaseline, mole skin..etc.
Some folks (Im sure) on here wear business attire, if you have dress shoes Id highly advise keeping running shoes or hiking shoes in your get home pack.
Spare cord or shoe laces as well. It could be a long bubblegum walk home.

 

[The Heretic]

Anyone brought up comfy hiking shoes Or foot care? Spare socks, foot podwer, vaseline, mole skin..etc.
Some folks (Im sure) on here wear business attire, if you have dress shoes Id highly advise keeping running shoes or hiking shoes in your get home pack.
Spare cord or shoe laces as well. It could be a long bubblegum walk home.

Look at the pics I posted

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

In the back of my daily driver:

View attachment 289677

Two storage boxes. One contains about three days of FD food for one adult, two FAKs, several knives and so on. The other contains a GHB (with hydration bag) and some other items. The boots are for hoofing it (I usually wear comfortable slip-ons to work and when driving unless it is snowing).

Below that, there is a storage layer:
View attachment 289678

With about 10 liters of filtered water and some other dried food and assorted items.

Below that is another area where the battery and electronics for the car is. There is just enough spare room there to put a small handgun with ammo.

Up front, in the side pockets of the doors, is usually a liter or two of water and various snacks.

I spoke too soon. Well done sir.

 

[The Heretic]

• I will have to cross the Willamette to get home if I am at work when things go bad. I do ride a motorcycle to work most days, so if I had to traffic can mostly be bypassed, but if the shut down the bridges (or they fall down) it could get rough.
• So I actually keep a big backpack sized dry bag and a box of supplies at work. Not 9nly will it keep my stuff dry while I swim across the Willamette, it will act as a floatation device. And I will have dry clothes and gear on the other side. Still trying to decide the best place to try to cross though.

The problem with that plan is that downtown Portland is about 30 feet above sea level. If there is a tsunami, at the very least the rivers will backup for some time, maybe even get hit by the tsunami (although the maps show it wouldn't get up to Portland). Then there are the dams - in an earthquake it is possible that some dams might let go - whether up the Columbia or tributaries of the Willamette (dams on the Santiam come to mind). Any debris/etc. would flood downriver making swimming in the river hazardous.

Then there is the fact that the river floods in the winter with some regularity.

Swimming across that river would be my absolute last resort.

Fortunately, I work on the west side of the river, but on the east side of the hills, which I would have to cross. Predictions are that cross those west hills would be difficult as much of them would slide down into downtown Portland and Hwy 30. I am hoping no earthquake hits while I am at work, and not before I retire in 5 years (at which point I will avoid downtown Portland).

 

[CoastRange57]

The problem with that plan is that downtown Portland is about 30 feet above sea level. If there is a tsunami, at the very least the rivers will backup for some time, maybe even get hit by the tsunami (although the maps show it wouldn't get up to Portland). Then there are the dams - in an earthquake it is possible that some dams might let go - whether up the Columbia or tributaries of the Willamette (dams on the Santiam come to mind). Any debris/etc. would flood downriver making swimming in the river hazardous.

Then there is the fact that the river floods in the winter with some regularity.

Swimming across that river would be my absolute last resort.

Fortunately, I work on the west side of the river, but on the east side of the hills, which I would have to cross. Predictions are that cross those west hills would be difficult as much of them would slide down into downtown Portland and Hwy 30. I am hoping no earthquake hits while I am at work, and not before I retire in 5 years (at which point I will avoid downtown Portland).

The maps show it will not get to Portland ? The mega wave 50 feet will reach Portland easily. It is all about elevation. I would imagine that where you live, you can see some ancient landslides and how they shape the area you live in and those below you in elevation.

If you look at geological maps and history of Oregon and in particular the Columbia drainage, the current topography is shaped by thousands of ancient landslides that happened over hundreds if not thousands of years. Without getting into huge research and setting time lines, you can look at almost any ridge lines and valleys in Western Oregon and see where these previous high hills have slid into the valleys. This changes streams, rivers and everything.

Sometime in the last 1000 years there was a massive earthquake that caused these, and these hills have gradually been redeposited with enough organic matter and growth to create a rather shallow layer of soil holding the current forestation in place.

I will surmise that the earthquake you are talking about will put most of the West Hills above bedrock into the Willamette River or at least lateral movement of at least 1/4 mile to 1/ 2 mile and that this pattern will follow all over Western Oregon. The tsunami will only make things worse.

The geology of Western Oregon is greatly shaped by deposits from the Missoula floods, the following events that happened. It is a study that has held my interest for over 35 years since my course work in soils and geology in college and field trips all over Oregon. Maybe the earthquake will not be that bad, but when you block up the Willamette River or the Columbia, I think the computer models cannot even begin to predict the results.

 

[The Heretic]

The "maps" I was referring to are computer simulations of how far the tsunami would reach up the Columbia. IIRC they indicate it won't come but a few miles up the Columbia.

It isn't just elevation, it is all the other features of the land that the tsunami has to overcome, and it can only come inland so far.

That said, as I pointed out, I would not want to be in the lower elevations of Portland.

Where I work the elevation is ~70 feet where I park my car (per the GPS in the car, which could be 50 feet off given my experience, but there I think it is about right).

Moreover, as you point out, I work just east of Forest Park. Even if a landslide didn't take out the building I am in, I would probably have a lot of difficulty getting over the hills.

But my point was, I would not want to have to cross the Willamette - I think that would be a nightmare unless there is a good bridge still standing.

Five more years and I won't be spending every day in downtown Portland (I am lucky - my employer will not be transferring me over to the east side anytime soon).

 

[tc556guy]

Today the wife, three kids and I were on hwy 26 heading into Portland between the 217 exit and Sylvan Hill. Traffic was a stop and pretty soon there were lights and sirens headed in BOTH directions. I actually started getting a little concerned as the only scenario that came to mind was from an episode of Fear the Walking Dead when they were stuck in traffic at the beginning of the zombie outbreak..........If you all were in a similar type situation and the shtf how would you react?

In reality what you had was nothing more than a bad accident. They can get backed up like that if both lanes are involved, and if its a fatal, nothings being moved til the reconstruction team arrives.

In my experience most people do not know alternate routes of travel. They're used to driving one route to and from their usual destinations, and that's it. Throw a shut-down road at them and a surprising number will look at you all befuddled and say that's the only route they know to get to their destination. So my first piece of advice is to learn your AO.

Secondly, in this era of electronic tools I know that paper maps are not "cool", but keep a good paper map of your area in your car. I carry not only regular road maps, but the USGS maps for my entire county. In fact I'm in the process of upgrading to the new edition that came outa couple of years ago.

Have a plan. Any plan. Even a bad plan is better than no plan that leaves you in condition black gaping at the world with a shocked face when calamity hits. I assume that you have a car BOB. Have a plan for what you're going to do if you need to use it.

 

[CoastRange57]

In my experience most people do not know alternate routes of travel. They're used to driving one route to and from their usual destinations, and that's it. Throw a shut-down road at them and a surprising number will look at you all befuddled and say that's the only route they know to get to their destination. So my first piece of advice is to learn your AO.

Secondly, in this era of electronic tools I know that paper maps are not "cool", but keep a good paper map of your area in your car. I carry not only regular road maps, but the USGS maps for my entire county. In fact I'm in the process of upgrading to the new edition that came outa couple of years ago.

Complete truth. People have no idea how to deviate from their normal routine. One of my DIL's cannot find her way anywhere that she has not already been, and I have had to navigate her home by phone when she had to detour for wrecks. Fortunately, I cruised a lot of roads for fun in my youth, then worked driving trucks in various jobs, hunting and fishing. I can pretty much navigate the entire state and most of Northern CA, WA and Western Idaho with minimal map needs.

I would expand the paper map rule to a 3 county area around where you live. You can pick up Pittman Maps at garage and estate sales for $ 1 or less. Even at retail they are only about $
7 each. The USGS maps would be invaluable when you have to go cross country.

Basic map reading is a skill a lot of people do not have, let alone any kind of dead reconecking (sp??), or cross country navigation with a compass. When that GPS system fails a lot of people are SOL.

 

[The Heretic]

Maps, paper or otherwise, are good.

However, there is no substitute for having actually been there, both day and night, good weather and bad, summer and winter.

You get to see what the road actually looks like, its condition in different weather and lighting, the actual traffic patterns during different times of the day, and many other factors that you would/should take into account in a SHTF situation. You would still be making a guess about the best route, but it would be an educated guess.

Also, you should take those alternate route periodically as things change over time. The old routes I took as a kid through parts of Oregon are unrecognizable now, and there is always this or that construction project on at least one of the routes that creates a bottleneck and/or a change in traffic patterns.

Understand what happens to those alternate routes when the main route plugs up. That quiet low traffic route may turn into a traffic snarl because everybody and their dogs decided to take the alternate, and since it isn't a main route, it takes much less traffic to make it impassable.

So have a backup plan for your backup plan. Know where the dead ends are. Know where your escape routes are if you get stuck on a highway between exits (e.g., on hwy 26 coming westward down off the zoo hill, before 217 but after Sunset, there are a few access roads/paths that might be taken if you are willing to break through some gates) and know where you will be stuck waiting for traffic to move because there is no way off the road save for leaving your car behind.

 

[Angie]

As stated above, I always leave enough space in front of my car to maneuver around and get out if possible. Also have a GHB in the car, with 2 people in mind. If I find myself without my firearm, I always have pepper spray both in the car and in my purse and at least one knife. In the GHB are jogging shoes, fresh socks, gloves and the usual supplies (including first aid, moleskin and fire starter). Husband has his own GHB, so if we head out further than 30 miles or so, he throws his in my car and vice-versa. Thankfully, we work 1/2 mile from each other and 5 miles from home. He is supposed to come get me and we walk home together if needed. I work at a middle school, so that is the plan, in case they won't let me leave, he is coming to bust me out.