Striker fired pistols

[Spad]

I think we in the handgun populace should have a discussion about striker fired pistols, pro&con,many brands out there, Glock being the most famous to use a striker fired system. Various names are given to them. XD like to call thiers USA or Ultra Safety Assurance. We have suddenly come up with a new way of handeling a pistol, no finger on the trigger:huh:.What do you think out there. Spad

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[heck333]

I thought that "no finger on the trigger" was the standard in handling of firearms... maybe you know something I dont?

Greg

 

[Spad]

In the olden days, middle of last century it was pretty standard to have your finger on the trigger of a 1911 for instance. Military weapons, had a two stage trigger, you could feel the take-up on the trigger before the trigger feel hardened and broke with more pressure. Lot of people had thier finger on the trigger when pointing a pistol. With the advent of the more sensitive articulted trigger systems used on striker fired guns this is not a good thing, so hence the now taught no finger on the trigger. The golden rule is to keep your finger off the trigger until the target is sighted.Spad

 

[PhysicsGuy]

I don't think gun design has anything to do with training to keep a finger off a trigger. Its a good safety practice, no matter what type of trigger setup the firearms has.

Its probably one of the best safety concepts being trained, no finger in the trigger guard, the gun won't fire, can't say the same for training the other way. One of the best demonstrations for this Ive seen is when pointing a gun at a disabled/disarmed attacker, waiting for assistance/police to show up, ect. Even those who have the best trigger control can get startled in a high intensity situation.

Statistically its probably around 99% of negligent discharges happen with a finger on the trigger, so simple training can drastically reduce the number of NDs.

 

[Spad]

I have a Taurus stryker fired pistol that employs a single visible trigger, evidently the articulated part of the action is hidden. This Taurus stryker firing system also has the second strike capabailty, you can squeeze twice or more and the firing pin will strike the primer unlike a Glock which you much recock the pistol to have the trigger work again. Please Glock owners I am not anti-Glock. It has never failed,always works. Anyone one else have some different striker fired pistols. Spad

 

[spengo]

Doesn't matter what gun you have, you should always keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you are ready to fire.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

Yup, does not matter what kind pistol or trigger you have. When you are in panic and your finger is on the trigger, it will go off unexpected.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I find the entire premise of this thread to be rediculous at best.

Saying that the "finger off the trigger" training was developed for striker fired guns is just as relevant as saying that primers were developed only for use in Desert Eagles.

I blame line of fire drills on lever action rifles.

Handgun safety is only needed when handling Colts.

Tap, rack, bang only applies to Mak 11's

etc

 

[Spad]

Nice Guy,The premise of the thread in case you missed it was how about the different striker systems out there....Styer seems to have a diiferent one. My experience has been with the Glock and Taurus. I find the reset to be comparable to the 1911, a good thing. Spad

 

[Dutchy556]

I personally cannot believe that anyone would make the claims you propagate without an alterior motive.

Trolling, ignorance, or both...



Unsafe Glock thread didn't go as planned so now this rubbish?

 

[Spad]

TE Rickson, maybe you could elaborate on the more complicated then the Glock. The Styer and Ruger look the same but the Taurus obviously is not. When the original Ruger striker type came out it was just a single lever with no visible articulation,then after problems they changed to a Glock look alike. Are you a gunsmith or just hobby working on guns? What about the XD? Spad

 

[Spad]

TE, your links have been most informative. I can't find a schematic for the Taurus PT111 Millenium Pro. I guess I'll have to go to Barnes&Noble and look at the latest Gun Drawing book. With my limited looking with a magnifying glass the Glock is very simple compared to the XD. My old Gun Drawingbook does have the Glock 17. I'm going to look at the Ruger SR and see if I can find a schematic of that. At the moment I cannot understand the reason for the articulated trigger in the sense that to me it just is another place for grime to get in and hurt the function of the pistol, I know it is touted as a "safety" device. Interesting developements of striker fired weapons. Thanks for the links.Spad

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I always keep my finger mashed on the trigger of my 1911 because I know the safety is there to save the day!
Finger off trigger is smart no matter what firearm you are using. The #1 safety on all guns is between your ears and it's hooked up to your index finger. The 4 rules were developed a long time ago and for a reason. If all 4 are followed there are no negligent discharges.
I do like striker fired pistols along with more classic designs.

 

[hapuna]

I always keep my finger mashed on the trigger of my 1911 because I know the safety is there to save the day!
Finger off trigger is smart no matter what firearm you are using. The #1 safety on all guns is between your ears and it's hooked up to your index finger. The 4 rules were developed a long time ago and for a reason. If all 4 are followed there are no negligent discharges.
I do like striker fired pistols along with more classic designs.

Amen +1!!

 

[raftman]

Reminds me of a guy who claimed to have had decades of military experience, he tried to tell me that AR's are inherently so much safer than AK's that diligently abiding by the "4 rules" isn't necessary with an AR but is with an AK. Pretty glad I don't go shooting in the same places as that dude.

 

[Spad]

titsonritz, That was an interesting insight on the Glock revolution., especially the comparison to the 92. I see a lot of campanies making plastic lower ends for previous models. Saving money no doubt. Looking at the schematic for the Glock 17, it does seem pretty simple (relatively speaking), comparing it to the XD it seems we have more complications. I just saw that Kimber is bringing out a striker fired small auto called the Solo, with a single non-articulated trigger and a manual safety. I wonder how the fire control system on that compares to a Glock. I'm trying to find more schematics of striker fired pistols. In the manuals I run into the field strip but not further disassembly.Thanks for the M4 Carbine link.Spad

 

[Spad]

Well, lets see,the common thing on revolvers before the transfer bar was to keep the hammer on an empty chamber to prevent an accidental discharge. Nice comparison but you'll notice the transfer bar to solve the problem on revolvers. Sigs for instance and other auto's have a heavier trigger pull on the first or initial pull. German police have even gone further, like on the issue 225 or p6 and have a heavier spring for the the initial pull from the decock position, I think you a gunsmith already know that. How about the"safety" on a 1911 or High Power, a manual safety that must be put on or off by the operator manually, these pistols also have other internal safetys. Revolvers do not have a safety. I don't think you can call the manual safety on a 1911, High Power, CZ85 etc. redundant. I think even Smith&Wesson is offering the option of a manual safety on some of thier M&P models. What is wrong with having a manual safety? I don't want to get into to much nitty gritty,but on one of your earlier posts you say that the Glock with it's system seems to be superior then other newer stryker systems, how about if they eliminated that screwball articulated trigger and just put a simple manual safety.Spad

 

[odiesplace97301]

The nice thing about the M&P with a thumb safety is, you can easily remove them. S&W and G&R both sell the frame plugs that fill the safety slots.

 

[spengo]

There is no stored energy that can cause the firearm to go off until the trigger is pulled exactly like a double action only revolver.

Not... exactly. Glock triggers work a little differently than normal DAO and they do have some stored energy. When the slide cycles on a glock, the striker is cocked most of the way. That's why they have such a light trigger pull even though it is still double action. You have to pull the hammer back a little bit more, but most of the work is already done for you. That's why you can't keep pulling the trigger if the slide has not cycled. Glocks do not have double-strike capability. Steyr pistols and that new Caracal thing also work this way iirc (designed by the same guy).

M&P and XD strikers are even more different. They are actually cocked all the way when the slide cycles, but the trigger pull still does two things. First it moves a little safety bar out of the way, then it releases the striker. As such, the manual of arms is exactly the same and the trigger feels pretty similar (long travel, but light pull). They advertise as SAO but it isn't really since the trigger is still doing two things.

I consider both of these types of fire control groups to be pseudo-DAO. The trigger still does two things but there is no double strike capability of a true-DAO or the nice crispness of a true-SAO trigger.

 

[Spad]

Spengo, that is a good explanation between the two. I don't quite understand the comment there is no stored energy until the trigger is pulled, has to be stored energy as the Glock does not function like a true D/A pistol. I am very curious about the Taurus and Kimber systems, just using a single lever, plus the fact the Taurus has the double strike capabilty. I like the idea that Smith and Kimber have a thumb safety. Not interested in the "safety is between your ears" or other devisive testosterone fueled comments. Spad