Stretching your powder supply.

[David Sherman]

Lately I have switched bullets in my 9mm match load from 125 to 147 grains.
With powder shortages continueing I decided to load heaver bullets to strech my powder supply. My current match load is an MP 356-147 BB RN over just 3.2 grains of Red Dot. This allows me to get over 2000 rounds out of a pound of powder.

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[gmerkt]

Supply economy. You are casting your own bullet, have you worked out how much more lead you are using by casting a heavier vs. a lighter bullet, and how that compares to the amount of powder saved? This is theoretical, free lead doesn't count for this excercise.

My calculation, if correct, is the diff. between 125 gr. and 147 gr. in 1,000 bullets is 3.143 pounds of lead. (22,000 gr. by 7,000 gr. per #). So in 2000 rounds, that would be about 6.286 pounds of lead. I see lead for sale on ebay (for example), it runs about $2 to $3 a pound these days. Let's use the lower figure, $2 times 6.286 pounds, that's about $12.57 extra cost for using the 147 gr bullet vice the 125 gr. slug to make 2,000 bullets.

Your 3.2 gr. load of Red Dot for the 147 gr. bullet is pretty light, but no doubt you've found a load that works well for you. I don't know what charge of Red Dot you used for the 125 gr. bullet, but let's be generous and say it was a full grain higher, 4.2 gr. So in 2,000 loaded cartridges, that would be an even 2,000 gr. (not counting spillage, of course).

A jug of Red Dot costs about $30.00 +/- online at present But for this discussion, let's use $33.00, assume you bought it off the shelf in a retail store and included est. $3.00 sales for sales tax, but paid nothing for shipping / hazmat. One pound contains 7,000 gr. $33.00 divided by 7,000 gr. is .004714 cents per grain. .004714 cents times the 2,000 grains saved using the 147 gr. bullet is $9.43.

You saved $9.43 in powder, but spent $12.57 more for lead, leaving you $3.14 to the bad. If you had to add shipping and hazmat to the price of powder, the savings would be greater.

Back to the real world, maybe you've been given the lead for free, the entire argument is moot. You're really saving $9.43 in powder with the substitution. And, scarcity may be more important for powder than lead for many people. But it's a fun little exercise.

I've always considered powder charges for reloading pistol cartridges to be negligible in the way of cost considerations. Especially for 9mm and .38 Special, because the charges are typically small. One of my favorites is Hodgdon Tite Group, uses small charges that have a lot of energy content, plus the relatively small charge is ideal for 9mm with its relatively small internal capacity.

I've wound up with a surplus of pistol powders over the years. Any number of times I've been tempted to try this or that new powder. Which leaves me with more than I can use. Especially since they are used in such small charges per round. Over the years and down to this day, powders for pistol have always been lower in price per pound than those for rifle. Even among the ball powders, which I assume don't cost any more to manufacture for rifle than for pistol. My theory, the manufacturers know that rifle powder is used is greater quantity per charge than pistol. Therefore, they can figure on selling pistol powder less often, and price it lower to make it move. Or something like that, I'm probably wrong on this point to some degree.

 

[David Sherman]

Supply economy. You are casting your own bullet, have you worked out how much more lead you are using by casting a heavier vs. a lighter bullet, and how that compares to the amount of powder saved? This is theoretical, free lead doesn't count for this excercise.

My calculation, if correct, is the diff. between 125 gr. and 147 gr. in 1,000 bullets is 3.143 pounds of lead. (22,000 gr. by 7,000 gr. per #). So in 2000 rounds, that would be about 6.286 pounds of lead. I see lead for sale on ebay (for example), it runs about $2 to $3 a pound these days. Let's use the lower figure, $2 times 6.286 pounds, that's about $12.57 extra cost for using the 147 gr bullet vice the 125 gr. slug to make 2,000 bullets.

Your 3.2 gr. load of Red Dot for the 147 gr. bullet is pretty light, but no doubt you've found a load that works well for you. I don't know what charge of Red Dot you used for the 125 gr. bullet, but let's be generous and say it was a full grain higher, 4.2 gr. So in 2,000 loaded cartridges, that would be an even 2,000 gr. (not counting spillage, of course).

A jug of Red Dot costs about $30.00 +/- online at present But for this discussion, let's use $33.00, assume you bought it off the shelf in a retail store and included est. $3.00 sales for sales tax, but paid nothing for shipping / hazmat. One pound contains 7,000 gr. $33.00 divided by 7,000 gr. is .004714 cents per grain. .004714 cents times the 2,000 grains saved using the 147 gr. bullet is $9.43.

You saved $9.43 in powder, but spent $12.57 more for lead, leaving you $3.14 to the bad. If you had to add shipping and hazmat to the price of powder, the savings would be greater.

Back to the real world, maybe you've been given the lead for free, the entire argument is moot. You're really saving $9.43 in powder with the substitution. And, scarcity may be more important for powder than lead for many people. But it's a fun little exercise.

I've always considered powder charges for reloading pistol cartridges to be negligible in the way of cost considerations. Especially for 9mm and .38 Special, because the charges are typically small. One of my favorites is Hodgdon Tite Group, uses small charges that have a lot of energy content, plus the relatively small charge is ideal for 9mm with its relatively small internal capacity.

I've wound up with a surplus of pistol powders over the years. Any number of times I've been tempted to try this or that new powder. Which leaves me with more than I can use. Especially since they are used in such small charges per round. Over the years and down to this day, powders for pistol have always been lower in price per pound than those for rifle. Even among the ball powders, which I assume don't cost any more to manufacture for rifle than for pistol. My theory, the manufacturers know that rifle powder is used is greater quantity per charge than pistol. Therefore, they can figure on selling pistol powder less often, and price it lower to make it move. Or something like that, I'm probably wrong on this point to some degree.

My focus is on availabity of lead and powder. My favorite powders are hard to find but lead is easier to get.

 

[WillametteWill]

Supply economy. You are casting your own bullet, have you worked out how much more lead you are using by casting a heavier vs. a lighter bullet, and how that compares to the amount of powder saved? This is theoretical, free lead doesn't count for this excercise.

My calculation, if correct, is the diff. between 125 gr. and 147 gr. in 1,000 bullets is 3.143 pounds of lead. (22,000 gr. by 7,000 gr. per #). So in 2000 rounds, that would be about 6.286 pounds of lead. I see lead for sale on ebay (for example), it runs about $2 to $3 a pound these days. Let's use the lower figure, $2 times 6.286 pounds, that's about $12.57 extra cost for using the 147 gr bullet vice the 125 gr. slug to make 2,000 bullets.

Your 3.2 gr. load of Red Dot for the 147 gr. bullet is pretty light, but no doubt you've found a load that works well for you. I don't know what charge of Red Dot you used for the 125 gr. bullet, but let's be generous and say it was a full grain higher, 4.2 gr. So in 2,000 loaded cartridges, that would be an even 2,000 gr. (not counting spillage, of course).

A jug of Red Dot costs about $30.00 +/- online at present But for this discussion, let's use $33.00, assume you bought it off the shelf in a retail store and included est. $3.00 sales for sales tax, but paid nothing for shipping / hazmat. One pound contains 7,000 gr. $33.00 divided by 7,000 gr. is .004714 cents per grain. .004714 cents times the 2,000 grains saved using the 147 gr. bullet is $9.43.

You saved $9.43 in powder, but spent $12.57 more for lead, leaving you $3.14 to the bad. If you had to add shipping and hazmat to the price of powder, the savings would be greater.

Back to the real world, maybe you've been given the lead for free, the entire argument is moot. You're really saving $9.43 in powder with the substitution. And, scarcity may be more important for powder than lead for many people. But it's a fun little exercise.

I've always considered powder charges for reloading pistol cartridges to be negligible in the way of cost considerations. Especially for 9mm and .38 Special, because the charges are typically small. One of my favorites is Hodgdon Tite Group, uses small charges that have a lot of energy content, plus the relatively small charge is ideal for 9mm with its relatively small internal capacity.

I've wound up with a surplus of pistol powders over the years. Any number of times I've been tempted to try this or that new powder. Which leaves me with more than I can use. Especially since they are used in such small charges per round. Over the years and down to this day, powders for pistol have always been lower in price per pound than those for rifle. Even among the ball powders, which I assume don't cost any more to manufacture for rifle than for pistol. My theory, the manufacturers know that rifle powder is used is greater quantity per charge than pistol. Therefore, they can figure on selling pistol powder less often, and price it lower to make it move. Or something like that, I'm probably wrong on this point to some degree.

Posts like this make me sooo happy knowing that I'm not the only math geek who thinks like this. Thank you kind sir.

 

[P7M13]

@gmerkt, excellent analysis - thanks.
I see it as a simple have / have-not question like Mr Sherman restated.
@David Sherman , Purdy boolits! How quickly do you shoot through those 2K?

 

[Stomper]

Wouldn't it just be easier to thin out your powder with a rolling pin on the counter or bench top?

 

[arakboss]

My focus is on availabity of lead and powder. My favorite powders are hard to find but lead is easier to get.

Very true, bullets are about the only thing that has been on the shelves or online regularly during this shortage.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I always crow about how good Trail Boss and Vihihitori powders are.. so they don't buy my Red Dot!



not really

 

[David Sherman]

@gmerkt, excellent analysis - thanks.
I see it as a simple have / have-not question like Mr Sherman restated.
@David Sherman , Purdy boolits! How quickly do you shoot through those 2K?

About 200 rounds per match, 1 or two matches per month, and 50-100 each week in practice. Around 3 months of shooting.

 

[gmerkt]

About 200 rounds per match, 1 or two matches per month, and 50-100 each week in practice. Around 3 months of shooting.

From this distance, those look like nice bullets. When I was casting bullets, coating hadn't come out yet and it's something I never got into. However, I have bought some that were made commercially. I had an issue with some bullets for .45 ACP, which after coating were too large. I'm wondering, what are the considerations in getting your bullet size right in view of the coating process. Do you size the bullets before or after coating? I'm guessing that the coating when in fluid state varies, so a thick coating laid on might make bullets slightly "fat."

 

[Nosferatu]

I stretched my powder supply by running out of primers.

 

[arakboss]

Another idea for stretching powder usage is to try reduced loads in rifles. I picked up a jug of IMR4227 that should last me for many years. It won't satisfy longer distance shooters but if you are just smacking metal at the nearby gravel pit, it will save lots of powder. IMR4227 has been readily available online during the recent scarcity.

 

[RVTECH]

Why not just use the 3.2 grains of powder with the 125 grain bullets?

It is not at all unusual with certain powders data will show similar powder charges with bullets of different weights. And example would be with .30-30 Winchester. I have used 9-10 grains of Unique with bullets from 165 grain down to 110 grain.

Typically higher powder charges shown are intended to gain increased velocity with a lighter bullet but using a lighter charge is completely acceptable. That 3.2 grains you are using with the 147 grain bullets will be just fine with the 125 grain bullets.

 

[David Sherman]

From this distance, those look like nice bullets. When I was casting bullets, coating hadn't come out yet and it's something I never got into. However, I have bought some that were made commercially. I had an issue with some bullets for .45 ACP, which after coating were too large. I'm wondering, what are the considerations in getting your bullet size right in view of the coating process. Do you size the bullets before or after coating? I'm guessing that the coating when in fluid state varies, so a thick coating laid on might make bullets slightly "fat."

Sizing is done after coating. You can "adjust" your factory lead bullets with an inexpensive Lee sizer Die Kit. This will fit into most single stage and turret presses. For 45 ACP I use the .452 sizer.

 

[solv3nt]

Posts like this make me sooo happy knowing that I'm not the only math geek who thinks like this. Thank you kind sir.

I'm an electrical engineer; y'all are a bunch of nerds....

 

[Throckmorton]

My focus is on availabity of lead and powder. My favorite powders are hard to find but lead is easier to get.

I"m also in this camp. I can get all the cast bullets I want, shipped right to my mailbox. Living in Florence,if Bimart don't have it, I'm not driving over a hundred miles round trip to hopefully find a jug of powder.
I"m shooting less and shooting reduced loads,at least I"m' still shooting.

 

[WillametteWill]

I'm an electrical engineer; y'all are a bunch of nerds....

Guilty as charged.

 

[DizzyJ]

Wouldn't it just be easier to thin out your powder with a rolling pin on the counter or bench top?

Hammer works better. Especially on primers to widen them out if the primer pockets are too loose.

 

[drstrangelove]

Try an 8lb jug of Titegroup. That should last anyone into their retirement years. What does the bottle say... a little goes a long way!

 

[arakboss]

Try an 8lb jug of Titegroup. That should last anyone into their retirement years. What does the bottle say... a little goes a long way!

And you can load up a bunch of different reduced rifle loads with it as well.