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Hi all,

I am a bit confused wrt loads for my Browning .45-70. I was under the belief the action was at least as strong as Marlins 1895 which uses the 40,000 psi load data in Hornady's reloading book however it is a bit ambiguous when it comes to the 1886 as it states the 40,000psi loads are not to be used for antique rifles or replicas of them.

Does a modern Browning or Winchester lever action count as a replica? I wasn't sure so I emailed Hornady and the advice was to use the 28,000psi data which is opposite the advice I received from Hodgdon Technical Support and pasted below:

"You can use the data for the 40,000 psi loads in that gun but the standard 28,000 are also fine. Make sure you get a good crimp applied to the bullet , that will help with consistent ignition and help the case expand to seal off the chamber. A little blow back on a straight walled rifle case is likely going to occur at least a little bit".

The reason I have been making inquires was the last range session using RCBS 300gr Cast Gas Check bullets, a starting load of 42gr Ramshot X-Terminator, Magtech Primer and crimped using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Recoil was very mild and there was a lot of soot on the case which was gumming up the works making it hard to chamber a round. In addition the primer was still quite rounded and there was no cratering evident.

I have also emailed Browning but have yet to get a response. I'm not shopping around until I get the answer I want I just want definitive advice, I could step it up to the maximum powder load but I still would be only using the low power 28,000psi data and potentially not getting the best performance out of my rifle.

Anyone have a point of view/advice?

Cheers,
Pete
 
The 1886 is one of the stronger/strongest Brownings built and designed to handle .45-70 thru .50-110

The Miroku Browning/Winchesters are modern 1886s and should handle standard modern .45-70 loads - not just the older low pressure BP loads.
 
Thanks for the reply.

That is what I've been led to believe. However, when I get a response from Hornady as per below I start to have doubts to what I think is correct though I do feel Hornady's position is one of minimizing exposure to potential litigation if someone uses the 40,000psi data in an older 1886 or a replica made without access to modern metallurgical processes or steel.

"The data in our manual suggests to use the trap door data as the Browning rifles were built for 25,000psi of pressure. Unfortunately we cannot recommend using any higher pressures".
 
I have two Model 92s, one a Miroku Winchester, the other a Rossi - in .44 magnum. I have no misgivings about shooting 36K PSI loads in them. Rossi made a '92 in .454 Casull and that is 65K PSI.

The 1892 is a downsized 1886.

BHA makes a rifle based on the 1886 & '92 for .460 & .500 magnum.


I think Hornady is just being careful about not being sued.

Any of the Miroku Brownings or Winchesters, including the 1886 and 1892, are modern rifles built with modern steel. Some say they are better made than US manufactured Winchesters. I would have no problems shooting .45-70 hot loads in a modern 1886. I would not have a problem with modern 40K PSI loads in any vintage 1886 either if it said "nickel steel" on the barrel, as are most of the 1886 rifles made after 1900.

 
I appreciate the links you posted I'm sure you're correct. I found a book this afternoon I used to write down loads and there are a couple I used that I remember were hard hitting. The powders aren't readily available here but I can use the info knowing they were safe to use in a previous .45-70 I had and find equivalent powders in the 40,000psi range.

I too have a model 1892 .44 mag, a Browning carbine that I made a crescent style butt stock and rifle forend for. I also have an old Winchester Model 92 .25-20 whose action is super slick.
 
Some say they are better made than US manufactured Winchesters.
Well, you own a Miroku what do you think?

Personally I do not own a Miroku (came close once) but have looked at and handled several and there is a strong argument for them being made better than US made Winchesters - and definitely better than post '64 models for sure.

However I have looked at and handled several early Winchesters and some of them were excellent and on par with a new Miroku.
 
Well, you own a Miroku what do you think?

Personally I do not own a Miroku (came close once) but have looked at and handled several and there is a strong argument for them being made better than US made Winchesters - and definitely better than post '64 models for sure.

However I have looked at and handled several early Winchesters and some of them were excellent and on par with a new Miroku.
I love my Miroku made Winchester '92 Trapper takedown with a 16" octagon barrel. For years I looked for something like this, not even knowing it existed, so when I stumbled across one here, I snatched it up. The only thing I don't like about it is the crescent buttstock plate. I am going to buy a different buttstock (hopefully something with some figure) with a shotgun butt, and have Velzey fit it (and a recoil pad). Other than that, it is now a "safe queen" - I bought it NIB unfired. I shot it once and put it away. I have a Rossi '92 that is my field lever action in .44 mag

I have owned a number of Winchester '94s in .30-30, including a vintage rifle made sometime in the early 20th century. Of these, the Miroku seems to be the best of what I have owned - by far.

I didn't care for the later model '94s, especially the AE models - I prefer the Marlin 336 to those (and that is what I now own, a 336 Youth model in .30-30 with a scout scope rail).
 
What caliber is it?

Does the crescent buttplate bother you shoot with it?
.44 Mag

The buttplate is metal, and the shape doesn't work for me, so yeah, I would prefer a "shotgun" style buttstock.

This is what I would want:
l_Winchester%201892.94%20ST.SB.jpg
Instead of this:
l_Winchester%201892.94%20ST.CR.jpg

And I might have a cartridge trap inletted into it.
 
The buttplate is metal, and the shape doesn't work for me.
Oh, I understand - I have a couple Winchesters with them and they can be a challenge for sure.

When I got my '66 100 Year commemorative it had been restocked and a conventional steel shotgun style buttplate put on it and I had a later style plastic plate that fit perfectly on top of it, and it is my preferred Winchester to shoot.
 
Last Edited:
I have the crescent buttplate on 3 of my levers .44 mag .25-20 and the .45-70. I like how they come to the shoulder. My .375 Win and the .22 Win both have the flat (shotgun style) pad.
 
my mirokus both have crescent steel buttstocks thry're an 86 take down in 45-70 and a 20" 44 mag

i use them for main stage and long distance cowboy matches

that crescent is very comfy and easy to shoulder quickly, but to each their own
 
that crescent is very comfy and easy to shoulder quickly, but to each their own
They can be uncomfortable for some given the fact they are steel and due to their shape they do not offer a lot of 'surface area' to support the rifle and distribute the recoil.

When I got 'back' into levers several years ago I traded for a Winchester Buffalo Bill Commemorative and it came with a box of ammo from 1968.

Well I needed the brass so I decided to shoot the ammo and well, not only because 'older' ammo was hotter than is is today but along with the crescent buttplate the 18 rounds I had to shoot were brutal! It felt like shooting '06 out of a Mod 94 !

Needless to say my shoulder had NEVER been as sore as this after shooting any Mod 94 I have with the later, shotgun style buttplates!
 
They can be uncomfortable for some given the fact they are steel and due to their shape they do not offer a lot of 'surface area' to support the rifle and distribute the recoil.

When I got 'back' into levers several years ago I traded for a Winchester Buffalo Bill Commemorative and it came with a box of ammo from 1968.

Well I needed the brass so I decided to shoot the ammo and well, not only because 'older' ammo was hotter than is is today but along with the crescent buttplate the 18 rounds I had to shoot were brutal! It felt like shooting '06 out of a Mod 94 !

Needless to say my shoulder had NEVER been as sore as this after shooting any Mod 94 I have with the later, shotgun style buttplates!
For any firearm where the recoil is a bit excessive I use a firm fitting shooting vest that has a gel pad in the shoulder. It definitely helps to spread the recoil over a larger area.
 
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Not sure how I missed this thread.
Anyway, when I was actively competing in CAS, I went thru 5 rifles.
Started with a Browning 92 in .44mag, a wonderful rifle, but switched to a Marlin 1894SS for black powder use.
The Marlin required 2 trips to a smith for a lot of internal work before it would run at speed without the action locking-up, but it was a decent performer once the bugs were out.
When I switched to .45 Colt I went thru 2 Rossi's, they were both a POS, badly fitted wood, sights that would draw blood, and grossly oversized bores and chambers.
The fired cases were ballooned so badly that they were hard to re-size for reloading and the bullets kind of rattled down the bores, lots of blowback thru the actions, they were pure junk.
Finally went to a Miroku/Winchester 92 .44 mag and couldn't be happier.
Smooth, slick, accurate. It feeds flawlessly no matter how fast you work the action.
Also have a Miroku 1886 and have used some hotter loads, a 405 gr. Speer running at ~1700 fps., I won't give the load, but it's not a max load in the published data.
It feels as though it'll dislocate your shoulder, used strictly for hunting.
No question about the action strength.
Mostly use a 405 gr. Oregon Trail with ~25>26 gr. of 5744.
It's close to the original black powder load and would probably still shoot clean thru an Elk on a broadside shot, and you can shoot a bunch of them without a blown-out shoulder.
I used to have a Marlin .45-70, (a 1981 straight stock,) nice rifle, never thought it was any stronger than the '86, although with its padded shotgun style butt stock it was not as brutal on your shoulder with heavy loads.
 
Not sure how I missed this thread.
Anyway, when I was actively competing in CAS, I went thru 5 rifles.
Started with a Browning 92 in .44mag, a wonderful rifle, but switched to a Marlin 1894SS for black powder use.
The Marlin required 2 trips to a smith for a lot of internal work before it would run at speed without the action locking-up, but it was a decent performer once the bugs were out.
When I switched to .45 Colt I went thru 2 Rossi's, they were both a POS, badly fitted wood, sights that would draw blood, and grossly oversized bores and chambers.
The fired cases were ballooned so badly that they were hard to re-size for reloading and the bullets kind of rattled down the bores, lots of blowback thru the actions, they were pure junk.
Finally went to a Miroku/Winchester 92 .44 mag and couldn't be happier.
Smooth, slick, accurate. It feeds flawlessly no matter how fast you work the action.
Also have a Miroku 1886 and have used some hotter loads, a 405 gr. Speer running at ~1700 fps., I won't give the load, but it's not a max load in the published data.
It feels as though it'll dislocate your shoulder, used strictly for hunting.
No question about the action strength.
Mostly use a 405 gr. Oregon Trail with ~25>26 gr. of 5744.
It's close to the original black powder load and would probably still shoot clean thru an Elk on a broadside shot, and you can shoot a bunch of them without a blown-out shoulder.
I used to have a Marlin .45-70, (a 1981 straight stock,) nice rifle, never thought it was any stronger than the '86, although with its padded shotgun style butt stock it was not as brutal on your shoulder with heavy loads.
Thanks for the post I appreciate it. I understand your reluctance to give out loads in a public forum (liability issues)? so if you are okay with me direct messaging you I'd like to discuss loads further. Not after a load to take down a t-rex I just want to be confident that the loads I shoot are using the Browning to its full capacity and ensuring it feeds and extracts without an issue as I want to use it this season as my primary hunting firearm.
Cheers.
 

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