Stopping power chart for reference (9mm, 40mm, 45ACP, MLB)

[po18guy]

To me it would seem that revolvers started disappearing when semi auto pistols started having double stack magazines

Col. Jeff Cooper noted that mag capacity went up as pistolcraft went down. In watching numerous incidents on ActiveSelfProtection (YT), I note 20-30 rounds often fired, in some cases with no hits. They might as well have had a .50AE Desert Eagle. Heck, a miss with a .50 Barrett would do as much damage.

The triangle remains: Speed, Accuracy, Power.

 

[OregonForest]

Col. Jeff Cooper noted that mag capacity went up as pistolcraft went down. In watching numerous incidents on ActiveSelfProtection (YT), I note 20-30 rounds often fired, in some cases with no hits. They might as well have had a .50AE Desert Eagle. Heck, a miss with a .50 Barrett would do as much damage.

The triangle remains: Speed, Accuracy, Power.

I wont disagree with a legend like Jeff Cooper... that said, I do tend to think there is a valid reason why the VAST majority of skilled handgun users choose to carry a doublestack 9mm instead of a larger caliber revolver.

Also, maybe people were more skilled with revolvers back in the day than people are with semi autos today... but personally I am MUCH more accurate with my double stack 9mm glock than my 357magnum revolver

 

[po18guy]

Everybody knows that the old, antiquated round isn't useful anymore. Most importantly, modern powders and bullets have made the 45acp better than the ancient 9mm.

I wont disagree with a legend like Jeff Cooper... that said, I do tend to think there is a valid reason why the VAST majority of skilled handgun users choose to carry a doublestack 9mm instead of a larger caliber revolver.

Also, maybe people were more skilled with revolvers back in the day than people are with semi autos today... but personally I am MUCH more accurate with my double stack 9mm glock than my 357magnum revolver

No argument there. Pistol vs. revolver is always a 'heat but no light' endeavor. Despite numbers and statistics, calibers and handgun types, one must make an informed choice and then strive to master that choice.

Back when revolvers were issued, I came up with my own reload procedure, which took about three seconds - however, I was able to do this only because I am left handed but shoot right handed. Too this day, occasionally carry a wheelgun, but mostly semi-autos. Don't feel at a disadvantage either way.

 

[OregonForest]

No argument there. Pistol vs. revolver is always a 'heat but no light' endeavor. Despite numbers and statistics, calibers and handgun types, one must make an informed choice and then strive to master that choice.

Back when revolvers were issued, I came up with my own reload procedure, which took about three seconds - however, I was able to do this only because I am left handed but shoot right handed. Too this day, occasionally carry a wheelgun, but mostly semi-autos. Don't feel at a disadvantage either way.

a three second reload seems crazy impressive for a revolver... if I'm not mistaken thats like borderline competition level fast.

I sometimes carry a revolver too, mostly when im hiking in the wilderness or doing stuff on my buddies ranch in eastern OR... altho I have been thinking about swapping the revolver for something like a 10mm semi auto, or maybe a revolver in .44mag or .454. From what I have read, .357mag is a surprisingly weak round for stopping wildlife

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Caliber size only matters if you have the gun with you and you can hit your target. My P238 in a pocket holster can go with me no matter how I'm dressed. Even a tank top and gym shorts. Don't have to worry about hugs when being greeted either. And…I can shoot it well.

 

[Mike_M57]

View attachment 1232856

Chart needs an addition after the 10mm...

.41 Magnum---------------Supernova

 

[OregonForest]

Caliber size only matters if you have the gun with you and you can hit your target. My P238 in a pocket holster can go with me no matter how I'm dressed. Even a tank top and gym shorts. Don't have to worry about hugs when being greeted either. And…I can shoot it well

Considering most people who CCW usually have a gun on them and practice enough to hit their target semi reliably, caliber is pretty relevant for most CC people.

Anyway I have no doubt that handle your p238 like a pro, but I'm sure you could also handle the p365xl, which is basically the same dimensions as your p238 but has a better trigger, twice the capacity, and it fires a round that hits with 2x as much energy (which also happens to be one of the cheapest and easiest to find rounds on the planet).

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...but I'm sure you could also handle the p365xl, which is basically the same dimensions as your p238...

FYI those two guns are not even close to the same size. Re 9mm vs .380, p938 is 9mm and same size as p238 (other than barrel/slide length is 1/4" longer on p938).

P365xl dimensions compared to p238:

 

[Stomper]

Judging from the diagram, none of the guns have much staying power. They're all drooping. And the barrels are the same length as the grips. I don't think I'd choose any of those guns.

OB44 must be a reincarnated goldfish, because she's "koi".

She reminds me of my HS Algebra teacher (Mrs. Peters). She had a knack for taking EVERY conversation (or teenaged "wise-crack") seamlessly back to the subject of math with a dead-pan straight face….

Which in retrospect tells me she actually had an AWESOME sense of humor…. whoda thunkit?!

 

[OregonForest]

FYI those two guns are not even close to the same size. Re 9mm vs .380, p938 is 9mm and same size as p238 (other than barrel/slide length is 1/4" longer on p938).

P365xl dimensions compared to p238:
View attachment 1232925
View attachment 1232926

my bad I was comparing the dimensions of the p238 to the p365 non XL version...which does compare very favorably in terms of size (yet it still has far better capacity and harder hitting bullets)

 

[pharmseller]

I don't need a gun.

I've got a Donk.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Well seeing as you're a new guy here, this is all you need to know and it's gospel.

 

[Lazyfaire]

There is stopping power and then there is.....

₩₳Ɽ ₱₳₮Ⱨ (@WarPath2pt0)

2

nitter.it

 

[ilikegunspdx]

There is stopping power and then there is.....

₩₳Ɽ ₱₳₮Ⱨ (@WarPath2pt0)

2

nitter.it

Yep, proper shot placement is key, especially if perp is wearing body armor!

Another example of body armor wearing nut job taking 12 shots to the torso:

VIDEO: Deputy fatally shoots man who struck him with piece of wood

A Montgomery County Sheriff's deputy fatally shot and killed a man who struck him with a piece of wood Saturday morning, video shows.

usacrime.com

 

[Lazyfaire]

Yep, proper shot placement is key, especially if perp is wearing body armor!

Another example of body armor wearing nut job taking 12 shots to the torso:

VIDEO: Deputy fatally shoots man who struck him with piece of wood

A Montgomery County Sheriff's deputy fatally shot and killed a man who struck him with a piece of wood Saturday morning, video shows.

usacrime.com

I'm just guessing the shotgun is non-lethal ammo, but could be wrong.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'm just guessing the shotgun is non-lethal ammo, but could be wrong.

Yea I think bean bags but can't say for sure. As flopsweat said, the bean bag rounds (assumed) look like it hurt him more than the multiple pistol rounds (until the pistol rounds did enough damage that they eventually made it through the body armor (again body armor is assumed on my part based on above posts).

 

[ilikegunspdx]

May be off topic, but personally I would love to see cops start using stabilized pistols/PCCs/sbrs/whatever and trained to shoot torso, head, crotch accross the board. I don't think training (and weapons) for cops has caught up to the reality of perps on the street wearing body armor. Just my opinion.

Fe having tested a Glock 34 with and without 3 types of stabilization I found any of the stabilized methods to be much more accurate than unstabilized. Something like this is not much bigger but much more accurate Imo.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

my bad I was comparing the dimensions of the p238 to the p365 non XL version...which does compare very favorably in terms of size (yet it still has far better capacity and harder hitting bullets)

It's still no comparison. Maybe not a big difference with IWB, but it's a huge difference with pocket carry. I can even tell the difference between the P938 and P238. I own both and have pocket carried both. In dress clothes or gym clothes, the p238 is the better option.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

It's still no comparison. Maybe not a big difference with IWB, but it's a huge difference with pocket carry. I can even tell the difference between the P938 and P238. I own both and have pocket carried both. In dress clothes or gym clothes, the p238 is the better option.

View attachment 1232986

I agree about pocket carry. Here in Portland recently I have had three times where I had my hand on the p938, released it from the pocket holster with the thumb tab (Alabama holster), and no one knew I had the gun in my hand ready to go if needed because it just appears you have your hand in your pocket. This was jeans pocket btw. With even a slightly bigger gun you can't do that.

Having said that, I carry my Jericho with 19+1 in a IWB holster sometimes instead so it just depends on what you train with and are comfortable with. There is no one size for everyone of course.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

I agree about pocket carry. Here in Portland recently I have had three times where I had my hand on the p938, released it from the pocket holster with the thumb tab (Alabama holster), and no one knew I had the gun in my hand ready to go if needed because it just appears you have your hand in your pocket. This was jeans pocket btw. With even a slightly bigger gun you can't do that.

Having said that, I carry my Jericho with 19+1 in a IWB holster sometimes instead so it just depends on what you train with and are comfortable with. There is no one size for everyone of course.

I just checked out Alabama's website for the first time. Which one do you have? First time I've seen phone "holsters" too. lol