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Stoping I594 thread

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Kable, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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    Sorry for the long post but hopefully you guys will read through it.

    Ok so by know we should all know that I594 is a very very bad bill and we need to vote against it. Not only that but the other side has millions more than we do so we truly need every ounce of grassroots effort we have to stop this thing. So, in this thread post all your ideas and any events you know of that are geared toward educating the public on how bad I594 is.

    Here are my ideas. They are just in the order I'm thinking about them and not in an order of importance.

    First, don't assume we are preaching to the choir. If you know people who are gun owners or are gun friendly make sure they know the details of I594 and are voting against it (and preferably also voting for I591). Here is an example, a while back I saw one of my neighbors open carrying (I live in a condo), I've said high to him a few times but never really had a conversation. One night I was taking out the trash and ran into him and I could tell he was conceal carrying (printing hardcore). I asked him about how I saw him open carrying before and if he was trying to make a statement. He was a little taken a back but I told him I was a pro gun guy with a conceal carry permit and was just curious if he was someone who liked to do the open carry stuff bringing attention to gun rights. He said no it was just easier for him sometimes. We had a long talk about guns and I asked him about I594 and I591 and he hadn't hear of either (how I don't know) so I explained them both and he said he would vote for I591 and against I594. I ran into him again just the other night. He works construction and he said he has been telling everyone he knows and they are all on board with him. He even knows some people who aren't really into guns but after explaining the details they agree 594 is lame and will be voting against it. So, moral of the story, do not assume just because you know someone who you think are pro gun that they are voting against 594.

    Second, find opportunities to talk to people about 594. I work in IT and one of my coworkers mentioned something about how they hate Microsoft. I told them not to even get me started on Microsoft as I was in a particular hateful mood towards them beyond just the usual IT reasons. They asked what was up and I said it was political and probably shouldn't talk about it at work. They probed me to say it anyway so I told him about I594 and how Balmer, Gates and Allen have all dropped a million on it, with the exception of Allen who's dropped half a mill. After explaining the bill he agreed it was lame even though he doesn't disagree with background checks per say and would be voting against. (We also discussed "assault weapons" and I educated him that there is no such thing and they are cosmetic features, now he agrees with that too). A few minutes later he came back and said he did some research on his own and it was even more messed up than he thought and he most certainly would be voting no on 594 and yes on 591 (I hadn't even mentioned 591 to him.

    Third, if you haven't heard or seen there is an event in Seattle in October to try and spread the word on how bad I594 is. Dave Workman wrote about it here http://www.examiner.com/article/kom...-pro-rights-rally?CID=examiner_alerts_article It is in Seattle October 18th Westlake Park from 11am-2PM.

    Fourth, spread this debate around as our side did a good job on laying out why I594 is bad and there was lots of talk on the transfer part http://www.komonews.com/home/video/...-Guns-in-America-274134031.html?tab=video&c=y

    Fifth, speaking of spreading things around, anytime Dave Workman posts an article about I594 you should share it far and wide.

    Sixth, hit up social media wherever you can. I've been following the #yeson594 recently on twitter and have been trying to post counter tweets correcting the anti's whenever they make false statements or try and claim letting your buddy shoot your gun is not a transfer. I'm hoping that if people check out that hashtag and they are on the fence they may be inclined to research a bit further and find the truth and vote no. Or maybe a husband to one of these demanding mommies will have been listening to his wife's lies and might see some of the tweets and start thinking for themselves and actually vote no instead of yes... hey one can dream right...

    Sixth, an idea I saw somewhere on facebook suggested using chalk to write on sidewalks NO ON I594 in busy places like games, concerts or even bus stops. I'd say go one step further and just put "thetruthabout594.com" or "thetruthabouti594.com". I'd say to put Voteno594.com which is where those sites point to which is the NRA detailing why 594 is bad but the anti's took NoOn594.com and NoOnI594.com which point to the yes on 594 page and I would hate for someone to think they will check out "voteno594.com" and by the time they get home or online somewhere to look they remember it as one of the others... I know who took the sites thetruthabout594.com and thetruthabouti594.com and pointed them to the NRA's voteno594.com page. They are considering creating a page of their own that starts off more basic and has more detailed info below so when people hit it they can get the bullet points and then if they want more info they can check out more of the page. The NRA site is very good but they don't like that it has the NRA branding on it which could turn away some people or cause them to not fully believe what is there. Until they have the time to get the page in place though it is directing them to the NRA site instead of just a placeholder so feel free to give out that site or the VoteNo594.com page, but like I said one could easily hit NoOn594.com instead and get the anti's page.

    Seventh, contribute to the Yes on 591 campaign. If 594 passes this may be our only way of blocking it for 2 years. Who knows what will happen at that point but it will have to be sorted out by the courts. I've been meaning to drop some cash to them but I haven't had much extra cash. I should have some next pay check though and I'm hoping to get them $50 bucks, about the cost of a background check.

    Eighth, slap on those bumper stickers and throw up the yard signs. I need to find where I can pick them up, I just missed the Monroe gun show and I'm sure they had them there. I thought it was next weekend but I had my dates confused. If you can't find them use some of that window marker stuff to write on your car windows. Just try and write neatly so it doesn't look too redneck.

    ninth, if you live in a condo or an apartment that has a community board where they let you post stuff post up some fact sheets about I594 and leave some pamphlets.

    Above all else make sure to VOTE when the time comes. We need a turnout at the polls.

    Anyway, that's all for now. Sorry again for the novel but we are up against a well financed machine and if they win it will just get worse in the future because they will think they can buy campaigns.
     
  2. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Very kind of you to suggest that anyone read my screed. I'll do my best to keep everyone on top of this.

    And you're right. Our side did a good job. On the OC forum, our team is getting a bit of flak from one or two people, but I have a lifetime of experience with Monday morning quarterbacks and the "Two Phils" did very well.

    ADDENDUM:
    All of the local gun rights forums gets a mention in this column: You may get some additional attention. Watch them words! ;)

    Grassroots versus gun grabbers: Planned October events show contrast

    Anti-gun Seattle Mayor Ed Murray yesterday sent e-mail invitations to an Oct. 13 gathering at a private Belltown residence that is doubling as a fund raiser and pep rally for big money supporters of Initiative 594, ironically the day after a Nevada newspaper declared in a Sunday editorial that it is time for “an honest discussion about guns in America.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/grassroots-versus-gun-grabbers-planned-october-events-show-contrast
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
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  3. donaldc

    donaldc Seattle Active Member

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    I will probably get flack for saying this, but I think the "I-594 will lead to registration" thing is ineffective. In talking to various people on the fence about voting for I-594 or I-591, I have found most people don't understand registration or that it leads to confiscation. I get responses like "I thought all guns were already registered" or "So what?" or "Good, that way police can track a gun that was used in a crime".

    I believe we should educate people on registration, and how it leads to confiscation, but that is a long term goal and different from what we face now. We should not confuse that long term education with the short term goal of stopping I-594.

    In order to convince the average person on the fence about voting for I-594 or I-591, we should use messaging and arguments that are effective for the average voter (note: these are likely different from the arguments that are effective on us). Take a moment to think about the non-gun issues you have voted on in the past, most likely you voted on a combination of personal beliefs/values and the first few sentences of a summary. This is the same way non gun owning average voters will vote for/against I-594 and I-591. Therefore, our message needs to be short and hit an emotional nerve in the average voter. This is an area I believe we are getting beat by the pro I-594 groups. Our arguments against I-594 are too logical and complex for the average voter to understand or to care.

    I think an example of a simple and emotional ad would look something like this (I made it in less than five minutes with pictures off Google so it may not be technically accurate since it looks like the top picture may fall under the sporting/educational exemption, but you get the idea):

    Example ad.jpg
     
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  4. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Give it a try. Run it up and circulate it all over the place.
    Just make sure you have rights to the images.
     
  5. donaldc

    donaldc Seattle Active Member

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    It was just an example of something simple and easy to understand for the average non-gun owning voter. Another example I found is the Kroger campaign from Moms Demand Action. It is simple, yet very effective (Note: I am totally against what they are doing, but we can learn from what they are doing and create better messaging for our side):
    http://momsdemandaction.org/kroger

    Also, I highly recommend reading the book "Made to Stick" by Chip Heath and Dan Heath to get some ideas on how to make our messaging more effective.
     
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  6. tiggers97

    tiggers97 United States Well-Known Member

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    Also, remind people that the Washington Police organizations are all against 594 as well.
    If the rank and file professionals, who have to deal with it day-in and day-out are against it, what does that say about 594?
     
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  7. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I tool a Defensive Pistol class on Saturday in Washington. A reporter from the local paper also took the class to do a feature story. While reloading our magazines he mentioned that the pistol he was using was borrowed from a friend and he also brought his dad's revolver along. After class it dawned on me "Hey that is four background checks and at least ten days of waiting to transfer both firearms to him and back to the owners" A huge waste of time and money just so he could take a class! When I got home I emailed the reporter this information and asked that it be included in his story. Here is hoping.
     
  8. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Just to add to this we also have the event posted in the events section here. I'm going too get with Joe and see if we can get it posted at the top as well.


    Not bad. Note there is an error in the pic where it says 954 or something like that instead of 594.
     
  9. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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    I like the idea of having something simple. I was in Cannon Beach Oregon 2 weeks ago for my 2 year anniversary with the wife. I was flipping through channels and had to stop to grab something. The channel I landed on was talking about the Oregon Beaches Forever initiative. I don't remember all the details but it was something most voters likely would have supported and it had a lot of initial support but because it added a small gas tax the gas companies got involved and started pushing ads against it. They had a very simple ad with no details. The initiative was "initiate 6" and the the slogan they came up with was "beware the tricks in initiative 6" and the initiative failed.

    I've been racking my brain trying to think of something extremely simple and catchy like that we could start using to have it stick in the heads of those who are just the average voter that aren't paying too much attention to the real meat of the initiative. So far I got nothin... anyone have suggestions? Only thing I can think of is something like "beware the door behind I594"
     
  10. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    We have two big sellers with I-594 if worded right. First is the billionaire support which is where most of the money supporting it is from (are we going to let a few billionaires buy our rights away) and the other is that it applies to simply transfers of possession rather than sales as they keep trying to claim. I.E. Transferring a firearm to a student during training or recreational shooting would be illegal without FFL background checks.
     
  11. mo1826

    mo1826 Idaho Member

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    As someone from Idaho who's seen your state take some pretty big libertarian steps it might make sense to talk to some voters about how much government control they want to have.

    "A vote for 594 gives the government more!"
     
  12. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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    I like it, but sadly that's what the brain dead masses of King County (county Seattle is in) want, is the government to totally control their lives.
     
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  13. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    We are kind of a middlin state. The majority here is in support of their right to have their guns and will fight to keep them. They are not so adamant about their neighbors right though. They will support regulations as long as it doesn't effect them personally. Therefore we need to make them understand how it personally effects them and can make them criminals.
     
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  14. donaldc

    donaldc Seattle Active Member

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    The last two sentences are exactly what is needed. I really couldn't have said it better myself. Now, how do we do that? I'm not sure.
     
  15. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The only way I know without a bunch of money is to get out there and talk to people.
    Here are the main points I try to use:

    1.  If a friend would like to borrow a rifle to go hunting and picks it up at your home that is a transfer according to I-594. When he/she picks it up you both would be guilty of a misdemeanor. When he/she returns it you both become felons.
    2.  If you are over 18 but not yet 21 you would not be able to inherit a handgun from a relative as "ALL" handguns inherited require a transfer. (Effectively this creates a gun registry for all handguns)
    3.  If a minor who has taken the appropriate safety class and obtained a hunting permit crosses a ridge out of sight of an adult while hunting it is a violation of I-594
    4.  Loaning a rifle to a friend on your own property to target practice with would also require a transfer, as would doing so at any location that is not an authorized range.
    5.  You can gift a firearm to a parent, child (if they are old enough), siblings, etc. You could not loan a firearm to a daughter or parent to have while they travel across the state though.
    Transfer redefined:
    Section 2, "(25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans."

    One other point is to be sure that people know that while it says it is exempt from sales tax it is not exempt from use tax.

    Here is another good list of points as well:
    https://www.voteno594.com/blog-post...ve-594-not-reported-by-anti-gun-organization/
     
  16. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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  17. donaldc

    donaldc Seattle Active Member

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  18. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    With just a quick skim through it you can see that they are making a lot of assumptions without any real verification to back them up.
     
  19. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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    Yeah I read this story that evertown fools have been spreading on Twitter
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-to-buyers-who-would-fail-a-background-check/

    It aggravated me to no end. They just take their flawed study as fact even though it's coming from a group with an agenda that's been proven to have shady studies on other things like the number of mass shootings since Sandy Hook. Looks like all they did is take a number of posts that they could find people names on then searched for criminal histories. Just having someone's name is going to yield a high chance the record found is not for the person who bought the gun. For example the range I go to has go to has another member with the same first and last name as me

    They also claim those sales are "online purchases"

    Also, most postings I see require that you have a CPL or they won't sell to you but of course they don't mention that either
     
  20. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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