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So #1 way to make safe secure online payments and shipments is to use PayPal and send the money as a business transaction. They have buyers protection so if the seller sends you a box of rocks, or even better dosnt send anything at all. You can ask for a full refund and PayPal will refund you your money after a few days/ weeks. I think Venmo, zelle, cash app, and apple pay all have buyers protection but I have not delt with any of them.
Except when PayPal deducts $2,200 out of your checking account, and you don't even have a PayPal account. So yeah, PayPal's great, I s'pose... :rolleyes:
I don't trust those sunzabishes as far as I can vomit...
 
All the guns I've bought here have been face to face, cash transactions, local transfers. Granted, buying online is a necessary evil at times, so the best thing to do, is to trust your gut. If it feels like there's something off, I break away and lord knows how much heartache it's saved me by trusting my gut instincts.
Cars and other high value commodities I've sold, I have always met the potential buyer at my local police station, and with guns, at a legitimate FFL I know and trust.
Lots of jokers out there especially when there's economic downturns, people start to get desperate and make dumb decisions as a result aka scams, cons etc.
 

jordanka16

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Maybe I've been lucky, never been scammed here or any other place online I do business. My #1 is I never send money to someone with no feedback (or if they have low feedback from other zero feedback people), or I offer that they send me the item and I'll pay them upon receipt. I've been here for nearly 13 years and have almost 200 positive feedback so I have a lot more to lose. Several have declined that offer, who knows maybe they were scammers I foiled, lol.
 

Toxic6

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Another simple thing to help avoid getting passwords stolen (kinda going off what Burt said about checking source of email) is to never EVER click a link from an email. If you get an account notice from a website via email, go to the site and log in to check it so not click the link in the email. Ever. Never ever.

We have tried to teach our daughter this since she was little “don’t be a soft target” and don’t be a victim. In all aspects of life 😂
 

Mikej

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Trust no one. Sellers that want a payment up front, etc. Ugh. I mean scamming is at an all time high.

A little off topic from sellers, but I have a 72 year old friend that has sent thousands to catfishers. He is convinced that these 20-30 year old women really want to be with him, move in, marry him. He is the definition of a simp. FB bots galore. I've sat him down a few times and have even shown him videos about catfishing, what it is - usually Nigerian/other distant GUYS masquerading as available women.

Sadly on Christmas one of the scammers convinced him that 'she' needed $2k to fly in and spend Xmas with him and of course once the funds were sent he sat alone on Xmas.

The thing I can't figure out is what is the drive? Sex? No, I believe it is just fear of being alone. He took the scam/catfishing over real invites.

Some people will also be ready to trust any email or scam. Even when they've had friends trying to help. He'll probably exhaust his life savings doing this crap in 2022 and there is nothing that can be done about it.

I have never been a fan of social media, it is a cesspool of narcissists. Other than that, never trust any emails, always check the source email address. Programs like MailwasherPro are very helpful. Truly, the elderly that are computer illiterate should not have email accounts if at all possible.
"Burt", you were my 9th feedback 6 months after I joined this site as a, mostly, complete noob to guns. I believe we probably spoke on the phone before your visit to my home. I was the purchaser. I can still see you sitting at our dining room table! Fricken hilarious now, but I though your name, was, Burt Gummer! Yeah, yeah I'm sure I'd probably seen the movie. But Burt didn't mean to me what he did to long time gun guys. :oops:

Anyway, my point is, some people have a natural sense for people. I've always had it. Burt must have it being as he came to my home after dark with a couple of phone calls in between. Having an ear to ear conversation with people is important for this old(er) guy. Though I have come to deal with a person or three here via the convo feature only, but good feedback and minimal money involved is why most likely.
Unfortunately there are always going to be some people who go dumb and blind into these situations and get taken. Having a natural awareness that people can be really really bad to one another is helpful.
 
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I think lots of issues come down to being too hasty.

Even if you are absolutely in need of money, it’s still not worth it to rush into any transaction.

It’s also not advisable to rush into a purchase because it’s something you really really want. Pull back your excitement a bit and take a good look at the deal at hand.

Scammers prey on the speed of things. They won’t stick around long enough to legitimize a real sale or purchase.

I’ve got a good amount for sale right now. As much as I’d like it all to be gone today, I know it’s a slow (sometimes painful) process to do it the way I want to do it. I know my “rules” turn off some buyers, and that’s fine. I likely wouldn’t want to sell to them anyways. Besides, even with my rules, everyone that has bought and or sold from me seems to enjoy the transaction, otherwise my feedback might be a little more red and not so much green.

Weed out most of the crap, it will save you the headache.

Buy local.

SLOW DOWN.

A few BOLDS I always have in my ads:

NO TRADES - Self explanatory, I rarely need anything, if I want to trade I will find you.

NO SHIPPING - Saves a lot of time. If you want it bad enough, you’ll have to convince me to ship it. I still might say no. It usually deflects a lot of crap messages.

NO DELIVERY - Makes it known I’m not driving all the way to BFE. I used to work for UPS. I don’t anymore

NO TEST FIRE - I recently started adding this, it’s a new one I’ve been asked recently more often. Just weeds out some of the weird ones.

FTF AT LUCKY SPORTING GOODS OR A CUT ABOVE PAWN - Don’t like this, move along. If you want something from Cabelas and you live in Portland, you drive to Tualatin. Well if you want something from me, you come here.

BUYER PAYS TRANSFER SND BGC FEES
- Self explanatory.

BUYER PAYS SELLER BEFORE 4473
- I’ve been adding this lately. Then I tend to be firm (sometimes I have to be sort of rude) at the meet up reminding the buyer about this one. I’ve had too many experiences where the buyer passes the BGC and then decides they want to try and negotiate the price. Well the firearm is sort of theirs at that point. It’s a F’d up tactic if you ask me. So now I’m sort of a dick when it comes to this one now. Inspect the gun, PAY ME, then fill out your 4473. I know FFLs are only making $10-$15 on this transaction and are usu trying to get you in and out as fast as they can, but like I said SLOW DOWN! The buyer and seller will appreciate it.

I screw up too on occasion, not following my own rules. Usually as I’m excited about the deal. In an attempt to sell a SP101, I proposed a trade. I was distracted and didn’t thoroughly inspect the gun I was trading for. The guy was nice in person and didn‘t seem like the type to pull a fast one. Well, the gun wasnt cleaned. RED FLAG #1, and upon getting home with it and cleaning it. I realized one of the action screws was broken off at the head. The gun was in the chassis with one screw. Thankfully the manufacture shipped me two full sets of action screws free of charge, but I took it as yet another glaring example of why I (and the metaphorical you) need to SLOW DOWN during any firearm transaction.

Reno
 
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Scam retailer I found a while back

No ffl but they advertise new guns for sale, uh oh.
 

Capn Jack

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I love, "The Voice of Doom". :)
That's what I call the female voice that calls to tell me:
1. My Bank of America account is over drawn
2. There has been a $2.500.00 charge against my Amazon account.
3. The warranty has expired on my 2008 Colorado.
4. There is an outstanding warrant out for my arrest.

It's the same voice ! You would think they would change it. :s0092:

I do kind of like that big Russian Blond ad on my computer though... :s0023:
 

Mikej

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I love, "The Voice of Doom". :)
That's what I call the female voice that calls to tell me:
1. My Bank of America account is over drawn
2. There has been a $2.500.00 charge against my Amazon account.
3. The warranty has expired on my 2008 Colorado.
4. There is an outstanding warrant out for my arrest.

It's the same voice ! You would think they would change it. :s0092:

I do kind of like that big Russian Blond ad on my computer though... :s0023:
I know the voice! You know, it's the same voice you get for a dental appointment reminder. That voice comes in after the happy/cheery voice starts the message from Willamette Dental. The dire voice takes over and says your name and time of appointment.
 
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Despite numerous threads on the subject and the above average intelligence of our wonderful members, I'm still seeing far too many reports of people falling for scams in our classified section. You need to be cautious each and every time, regardless of who you're dealing with, period. Most of the victims I talk with have one thing in common: they didn't think it'd happen to them. Truth is, it can and will happen to you if you conduct transactions through the mail without taking proper precautions as mentioned in the How do I avoid getting scammed? help entry. I recommend those not willing to put in the time and effort to protect themselves stick with face to face transactions.

Even if you've done multiple transactions with someone in the past, how do you know it's really them this time? Though we've repeatedly encouraged all members to use strong, unique passwords and enable 2FA, account compromises do still happen, especially with old accounts which haven't logged in for a long time. Those of you with tons of positive feedback and the same weak password you use on every account? You're a prime target! Their goal is to gain access to your account and then use it to scam others. You're hearing about this here, but please don't make the mistake of assuming this is a problem unique to Northwest Firearms. In fact, it's far better here than other sites. I only say this to remind you to take what you're learning here and put it in practice whenever you conduct business online.

If you suspect someone of being a scammer, don't assume we already know about them. Please report them ASAP so we can investigate and remove them if need be. You wouldn't believe how many things don't get reported.

I apologize if the tone here seems a bit harsh, but it ruins my day every single time I hear about it. Most of you will be reading this thread due to the notice or the alert I'll be sending to all of our members after I post this. It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but people just don't seem to be taking it seriously. Myself and our staff have been doing all we can to detect and remove potential scammers, increase security, and spread the word about this stuff. Unfortunately, all the technology in the world can't replace a bit of good old fashioned common sense.
Recently while adding my VPN to all my devices, I had wondered if the forums I belong to had 2FA (Two-Factor Authentication) which I use with my bank or any online stores I have accounts with and order from, it's not perfect, but it sure helps make it harder for the low-lifes. Thanks for the heads up, keep up the good work.
Dear Admin, you won't be able to help those, who won't help themselves. Let them roll the dice.
Everyone on the site should have it enabled,
That voice you hear, just might be giving you, the 2-minute final notice of termination.
 
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All of the payment apps are used by scammers to steal your funds. I only pay through apps with people I know and are in my data base of contacts on the app already. Paypal is anti gun and will be no help if you get burned there. In fact PP will likely close your account and steal your money like they have done with so many 2A companies. USPS MO if you have to or on this forum FTF only is usually the best rule.

Scammers can spoof any number they want to make you think they are wherever you need them to be. They can use apps like google voice and have a completely untraceable number in any zip code they want. They don't even need to have a cell phone carrier to use Google voice numbers.

Take note that scammers are also stealing copies peoples ID's, FFL licenses and gun pictures. This was the standard for Armslist scammers, but those same douche bags are on every forum now. Cover your serial numbers if sending pics to someone...period. Many people even put the date and profile name in the picture where it cant be cropped out. One of the other forums I am on, had a guy looking for a certain type of pistol which I have. He wanted pics, which I sent with the serial number covered up by blue masking tape and FJB written on the tape. He said he wanted it, but then ghosted me. Clearly a scammer.

Google image search photos that are posted in for sale ads. Search the complete or partial text thats posted with the ad. Many scammers just just and paste pics and text, so easy to do a search and find where they originated.

Protect yourself. Don't use the payment apps to send money. Cover your serial numbers for pics. Add your profile name and date to pics. Call the actual FFL you will be shipping to verify all information. You can go here to check FFL status and info as well

And remember that @Joe Link or the other mods will remove scammers asap. There have been some here that I referred to Joe and they were gone in a hot minute.
 
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For items of significant cost, I have a video call with the buyer/seller to view the item and also further verify each other’s identity (ask for a pic of their drivers license too). Most, not all, people have a cellphone with the ability to have a video call (FaceTime, Zoom, Facebook Messenger video, etc). If they refuse to have a video call then there’s a good chance it’s a scam.
 

BroncoFan

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Part of what I do is fraud investigations, including online. I can tell you that the bad actors are getting very, very sophisticated. They‘re even using sweetheart schemes to launder money, usually either going to the Russian mob or worse yet terrorism. The last really good one included them setting up an LLC in two different states. They defrauded several online machinery buyers to the tune of several million dollars.

If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
He/she doesn’t love you.
There is no ill Grandma, gerbil, or friend that is stuck overseas.
You can’t adopt a child from Nigeria.
 
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Perhaps.

Alternatively there's a good chance that they are simply a luddite & curmudgeon like myself. ;)

Video call for a sale/trade? Ain't gonna happen!

...now get off my lawn you damn kids!
Possibly, but I’ve done it a dozen+ times and both parties felt better and more confident in the deal. I usually insist on a call for items over $1,500 but everyone has their own limit for how much they’re willing to potentially lose.
 
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