Poll: Stock or Mods for your carry gun?

[PiratePast40]

Any lawyer, or a person for that matter, can make any argument they want. In all of these discussions that I've read, nobody has presented a single case of losing a lawsuit solely because of a legally modified gun. Come on guys, get a grip.

Let's face it, not too many people are going to use a race gun for carry. Trigger job and sight mods perhaps but not an actual IPSC/USPSA open gun.

And by the way, the "lawyer, or a person" lead in was purposely written to show a difference between the two.

 

[FreedomNW]

All you have to do is look at the prosecutorial mishandling of the Zimmerman case to see what can happen to someone involved in a defensive shooting situation. As far as I know, he had a stock Kel Tec but imagine how much worse the media storm (and potential jury influence) would have been if it had skulls on it. He was already dragged through the mud as a "wannabe" cop so what else would they have said/implied if his gun was customized? Vigilante? Wannabe killer? Seeking an opportunity to use his 'tool' vs. using it as a last defense?

Again, people can make their own choice, but sometimes remaining low profile is more strategic.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

I have heard both sides of this. The warnings in the classes and on the internet ("Put your stock trigger back on your glock before you carry it"). I've also heard that no precedent exists. If we can put aside punisher grips and flaming skulls for another discussion, can someone point me in the direction of a case where anyone has incurred additional civil or criminal penalties for using a functionally (trigger pull, length, sights, hammer, sear, crowning, barrel, etc) customized gun?

 

[gimpyhunter]

Just MHO,

Coming from CA, it has never been a problem between a stock or modified pistol. It has almost always been about specific types of ammo not caliber.

Do you have the right to shoot to stop the perp or does the law authorize you to keep shooting until their heart stops? You know what I mean. Do we have the legal right to kill or to stop the threat? There is a huge legal difference between the two.

I've always carried concealed anything except special bullets that are designed to increase damage or help to cause death. I don't generally carry hollow points, personally. Except for my .22 mag derringer. I have never seen solid .22 mag bullets. At least that I know of.

My wife, not being any kind of expert on guns and ammo could get away with using just about any bullet.

But what would happen in court if it were the ultimate expert on guns and ammo? Did he really need to load Black Talons considering his expert marksmanship? Is he using the round to stop the threat or kill the perp?

LEO is different, here we're speaking of civilians.

I have a healthy knowledge, experience and respect for the idiocy of the courts. My first priority is to protect my family. Me in Prison and/or loosing everything to defend my actions is not how I want to end my years.

Know what I mean?

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Personally I'll use what I have. All of my pistols are former service/police weapons, unmodified (with the exception of disabling the magazine safety on one Star BS). As for grips, ammo, etc., I think it is a red herring that some people might throw out there, but of no significance.

Was the shoot justified, y/n? That is the first question to ask/answer. If the answer is "yes" than no other question applies. If you, as the shooter, try to use the "the gun went off, I didn't pull the trigger" defense, well, then, yes, if you modified then you might have issues that need addressed.

 

[jrprich]

Hell, I usually modify everything I own to one degree or another.

 

[FreedomNW]

Was the shoot justified, y/n? That is the first question to ask/answer. If the answer is "yes" than no other question applies.

Which is my point. In a black and white situation, it really shouldn't matter what you use because you won't be charged and the news will report, "Police say the homeowner acted in self-defence and no charges will be filed." End of story (at least until you are served with a wrongful death suit on behalf of the assailant's children).

But most cases are not black and white, and even ones that should be, may still be prosecuted by anti-2nd prosecutors. And regarding precedent, since there are countless cases against the police for wrongful death, excessive use of force, etc., there is plenty of case law that covers a variety of specifics regarding equipment and ammunition. Why have to reinvent the wheel and defend a non-standard equipment choices (hiring expert witnesses, conducting scientific studies, etc.) vs. referring to the existing use of force cases where all of this has already been done.

Again, everyone can make their own choice, but I am not going to put my freedom or assets in jeopardy merely to trick out a gun, which in a defensive role is only a tool to solve a problem I hope I never encounter.

 

[deen_ad]

Everything I have ever read states there is no legal precedent for the modified gun myth. I think it started from the glock community regarding setting up a lighter trigger pull. I think it may have started out as an AD prevention thing and gotten twisted.

but it is one more thing that you will have to spend money defending against. Yes, you might win against a criminal investigation but then there's the civil one afterwards and that would be harder to prove that your mod didn't make it easier to kill/maim someone.

 

[Botte Hork]

I tinker with everything.

Same here, took most of my gun apart. Mine has a larger mag release button, steel trigger with lighter spring (standard set from manufacturer) and other grips. Like said before, I haven't come across anything that confirms the mod myth.

edit: And I carry heavy JHP, standard pressure though.

 

[dallen1x]

I remember seeing this issue come up in one of the court cases. I was doing some lite reading of opinions concerning handguns. I don't recall which case but...the DA was saying that the light trigger could go to show that the shooter wanted to shoot sooner or faster. The DA was trying to paint the shooter as trigger happy.

 

[FreedomNW]

I don't recall which case but...the DA was saying that the light trigger could go to show that the shooter wanted to shoot sooner or faster. The DA was trying to paint the shooter as trigger happy.

I have heard of a civil case where the opposing side was trying to convince the jury that the lighter trigger was responsible for an accidental shooting; that the shooter did not actually intend to shoot the assailant at the time that he did, but that the lighter trigger was responsible for the discharge. I recall they were trying to go after the shooter's liability insurance for a settlement, but needed to make the case that is was an "accident."

 

[hermannr]

I have a Colt revolver that I carry when out on the trail, or hunting. The SA trigger is very light and butter smooth (but then it is almost 90 years old), and it also has some period grip mods. Di I think I might ever have a problem with it? Not the least. I have not modified it from the configuration I received it in back in 1967.

It was a (retired when I met him) NYPD officer's pistol that I received as a gift in 1967.

My town carry is an unmodified CZ85 from 1991. I see no need to change anything on it. It works just fine, always has.

 

[Nivek]

I carry any of several 1911's, depending on planned activities & where I am going or how I am dressed. ALL of them have recoil buffers & titanium firing pins (haven't found proof anywhere, but I swear they go back into battery quicker), and depending which one I pick for the day, stiffer springs, lightened trigger, night sights, compensator, etc, etc...
I have that disease where I can't leave anything just the way it is.

 

[Redcap]

Same here, took most of my gun apart. Mine has a larger mag release button, steel trigger with lighter spring (standard set from manufacturer) and other grips. Like said before, I haven't come across anything that confirms the mod myth.

edit: And I carry heavy JHP, standard pressure though.

I carry light, hot JHP handloads.

 

[dallen1x]

I do have to say though that my daily carry is a black 1911 that I'm adding stainless pieces to. They're all colt factory drop in parts.