Standoff in NY with veteran over a 30 round mag

[Grumpa]

Oh look the thread that essentially promotes violence is now one where gun owners turn on each other for their differences in views.

I'm shocked I tell you shocked.

It's like some here are on script.

Yeah, I noticed that.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

its a cover up!!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Check this op-ed video...

@PlayboyPenguin is exactly on target here. Amen, brother! I wish he would leave out the sexual references and bad language so that I could repost this widely, but he has his own style and one can like it or not. That's optional. But the truth he's telling isn't optional.

 

[JackFrost]

Im glad to see this issue getting so much discussion but the fact remains that these blatantly unconstituitional ERPS's are popping up all over the country and passing with little or no opposition. How are we (as a group/community) supposed to band together when these things start becoming a regular occurance?
Barf Barson had a caller several weeks ago who asked him about his thoughts on red flag laws and Barf's answer was to tell the caller, "let the cops take the guns and go to court to get them back". Well that's great if you have VERY deep pockets and LOTS of free time available not to mention tryin to figure out a place to start since you are not charged with a crime so where in the world do you turn?
I would be absolutely screwed if that were to happen to me or most of the people I know, most attorneys wont even take a case without a massive retainer or some sort of collateral. And then there is the tired old repeat of "if you don't like it vote out the people that pass these kind of laws". Pretty sure all of us with a pulse can see how that has worked out across the entire country. NOT VERY WELL!
So where does that leave us? Can't afford to fight in court, don't want to die in our living rooms murdered by cops, zero suppport from courts that actually back the constitution and politicians who strip our freedoms away every chance they get and have no fear whatsoever of any backlash.
I seriously would like some answers on what in the actual PH$CK we are supposed to do?

 

[awshoot]

...
Barf Barson had a caller several weeks ago who asked him about his thoughts on red flag laws and Barf's answer was to tell the caller, "let the cops take the guns and go to court to get them back". ...

That's such bad thinking.

A) you have about what, two weeks to develop proof you are no crazy? First you have to prove a negative AND you have to find a psychiatrist who will do the job on a rush basis. It just isn't happening.

B) the State only needs to prove the case by a preponderance of the evidence which when it comes down to it, is just a tiny sliver of evidence over a 50/50 chance. Worse, considering the career shattering consequences of guessing wrong, judges will never reject these when they know that at most, they only need to get to a coin flip level of certainty. Seriously, if you stole a candy bar and went to court, the State would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did it before it sentenced you to 4 hours of community service and $100 fine -- a coin flip wouldn't cut it. But to take away a constitutional right based on guesses? That is NOT right.

C) All the rights in the Constitution are important. There has been in the past a cavalier attitude toward the 4th and 5th Amendments by some on the right -- that needs to change. Defend all the Constitution, not just what you pick and choose. This is exactly the problem on the left where people don't realize that by abusing the 2A, they put ALL the rights at risk for the same abuse.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

boogaloo 2.0 is what it's gonna eventually come down to. maybe not in my lifetime but maybe my kids.

 

[Brownsalamander]

boogaloo 2.0 is what it's gonna eventually come down to. maybe not in my lifetime but maybe my kids.

I think during our lifetime is most likely if at all. Our children are more susceptible to being influenced by trends. Hell so are we- but our children will be even more so, with the roll social media and popularity play in youths lives today. They will be trying to socially survive, and it is unlikely that being outspoken on the importance and true reason of the 2nd amendment will be so engrained in their minds that they will argue and fight with conviction against the growing crowds of people that are against firearm ownership.

Point being, I don't believe our children- regardless how much they shoot now or are taught now, will have the constitution and conviction to stand on their own with the diminishing ranks of gun supporters, against the ever-growing band wagon of anti-gunners when it comes to their social survival and the importance social survival plays into their lives as opposed to ours when growing up. Its easy for us, because of our age- we are already outcasts...often times derogatorily labeled "boomer". We have nothing to lose socially by standing for what we believe in- but our children, they do, and as much as we don't want to believe it, they are not going to be as willing to brand themselves outcasts in support of gun ownership as we are.

How can they have the heart to keep fighting for something that is all but "legends" told to them by their elders. Many will not have fought in wars, been in horrific circumstances where a weapon is needed, or lived in a truly pro-gun culture long enough to build conviction in the idea of standing behind the second amendment- at the cost of being an outcast. We do have that conviction, many of us grew that conviction out of experience. Conviction cannot be artificially grown in a mind, they have to experience first-hand why the 2nd amendment is important in order for them to be willing to have their heart in fighting for it. There are too many of their peers buying into this liberal socialist anti-gun rhetoric.

Case and point, I was (obviously) born after the NFA act. I grew up with those restrictions imposed. This is what I know. If you were to ask me to lay down my life to get machine guns taken off the NFA registry so they could be purchased as a title 1 firearm, I would look at you like youre crazy. That is how youth look at us right now. I grew up knowing if I wanted a machine gun I would have to jump through hoops and red tape. That is what I am familiar with. So nothing is being taken away from me I didn't already not have. However if the person asking me to lay my life down grew up being able to freely own machine guns without the bureaucratic nonsense, and now is fighting to get his right to freely own machineguns back, I can understand why he has conviction because this was a way of life for him that was taken without consent.

In essence, either it happens with our generation- or it wont at all and we will lose everything.

 

[Jabba]

How is it a "red flag" to have magazines? They aren't weapons, they aren't dangerous. Is this just rumor or is there evidence he was actually charged under those laws?

 

[revjen45]

Nothing you see in the Media is likely to be true.
This is especially accurate when the subject is guns.

 

[Geardo]

I think during our lifetime is most likely if at all. Our children are more susceptible to being influenced by trends. Hell so are we- but our children will be even more so, with the roll social media and popularity play in youths lives today. They will be trying to socially survive, and it is unlikely that being outspoken on the importance and true reason of the 2nd amendment will be so engrained in their minds that they will argue and fight with conviction against the growing crowds of people that are against firearm ownership.

Point being, I don't believe our children- regardless how much they shoot now or are taught now, will have the constitution and conviction to stand on their own with the diminishing ranks of gun supporters, against the ever-growing band wagon of anti-gunners when it comes to their social survival and the importance social survival plays into their lives as opposed to ours when growing up. Its easy for us, because of our age- we are already outcasts...often times derogatorily labeled "boomer". We have nothing to lose socially by standing for what we believe in- but our children, they do, and as much as we don't want to believe it, they are not going to be as willing to brand themselves outcasts in support of gun ownership as we are.

How can they have the heart to keep fighting for something that is all but "legends" told to them by their elders. Many will not have fought in wars, been in horrific circumstances where a weapon is needed, or lived in a truly pro-gun culture long enough to build conviction in the idea of standing behind the second amendment- at the cost of being an outcast. We do have that conviction, many of us grew that conviction out of experience. Conviction cannot be artificially grown in a mind, they have to experience first-hand why the 2nd amendment is important in order for them to be willing to have their heart in fighting for it. There are too many of their peers buying into this liberal socialist anti-gun rhetoric.

Case and point, I was (obviously) born after the NFA act. I grew up with those restrictions imposed. This is what I know. If you were to ask me to lay down my life to get machine guns taken off the NFA registry so they could be purchased as a title 1 firearm, I would look at you like youre crazy. That is how youth look at us right now. I grew up knowing if I wanted a machine gun I would have to jump through hoops and red tape. That is what I am familiar with. So nothing is being taken away from me I didn't already not have. However if the person asking me to lay my life down grew up being able to freely own machine guns without the bureaucratic nonsense, and now is fighting to get his right to freely own machineguns back, I can understand why he has conviction because this was a way of life for him that was taken without consent.

In essence, either it happens with our generation- or it wont at all and we will lose everything.

You point about machine guns and your point of reference is 100% true.

But!

Its not all boomers. The most extreme far right, no compromise gun guys I know are in the 30-40 range that saw the assault weapons ban sunset right when they were getting into guns.

 

[Brownsalamander]

You point about machine guns and your point of reference is 100% true.

But!

Its not all boomers. The most extreme far right, no compromise gun guys I know are in the 30-40 range that saw the assault weapons ban sunset right when they were getting into guns.

"Boomer" isn't just referring to age, but also an ideology traditionally correlated with older generations. In other words, your statement makes sense and is very true. This is also the demographic of returning combat veterans that have seen what happens to populations that are not armed, as well as used their weapon in combat. This helps engrain conviction in the belief of our 2nd amendment.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

im 31. i highly oppose gun legislation.