Standard bullet weight .38/.357?

[DeanMk]

Oops! Just checked load log: my load for this bullet in 38 spec is 5 gr unique and 6 gr with 357. Not 6 & 8 grs.

Thank you for posting that correction.

 

[s1xty7]

I prefer fixed sight revolvers in 357. I always heard that fixed sights were designed for 158gr projectiles. I don't reload, but all the factory rounds I have in 38 special and 357 are 158gr. I've also heard that lighter, hotter rounds can cause more gas erosion on the frame and forcing cone.

Just my 2 cents from what I've read.

 

[ma96782]

When my PD stopped using the .38 Special for our on duty holster 4" S&W reviolvers we were being issued the .38 Special w/158 grain lead hollow point semi wadcutter loads (aka:FBI loads).

For my off duty loads in my .38 Special S&W Chief's Special 2" I was using a 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point. But the regular duty loads were also GTG.

Aloha, Mark

 

[gprippers]

I THINK 158'S ARE STILL THE TOP CONTENDER FOR TARGETING AND PLINKING OUT OF THE K FRAMES OR L FRAMES. MABYE EVEN THE N FRAMES....38/44 HD!

 

[DLS]

... I've also heard that lighter, hotter rounds can cause more gas erosion on the frame and forcing cone.

Just my 2 cents from what I've read.

Gas cutting effects increase with higher pressure and with higher gas temperatures. Since "hot" light projectiles use faster powder than loads with heavier projectiles you typically see an increase in temperature. For the most part the pressures are the same for high end loads regardless of bullet weight.

So, yes the "hotter" load increases gas cutting but the amount is usually so negligible that it can be ignored. If you actually shoot a revolver enough that gas cutting becomes an issue you most likely have already had other problems crop up with end shake, timing etc. In other words the revolver has been worn out from other issues.

There are exceptions, such as the .357 Remington MAXIMUM (not Magnum) that was created for the metallic silhouette crowd. This round took a .357 Mag and lengthened the case to gain more powder capacity and ran at pretty high pressures and temps. Ruger quit chambering their revolvers in this round due to excessive gas cutting. The round lived on in TC contenders and the like where gas cutting was not an issue.

 

[aflineman]

I have more issue with my levergun and .38s than I do with any of my revolvers. Just because it is just a tiny bit harder to get into that part of the chamber on my leverguns. Revolver is easier to brush and inspect the cylinder. But it is not really much of an issue either way.

 

[41mag]

I suffered thru a long bout of 'carpal tunnel syndrome' about 15 years ago, such that even lower recipe 158g 38s were an issue for me the next day ( & the next.....etc).

Finally discovered the low end of the recipe chart for such as Trail Boss & 130g lead. Worked enough better I could enjoy the range time more.

"Good enough" accuracy was never really a problem as I became pleased with the steel plates more than the mute witness of the paper target bulls eye. Eventual surgery fixed the neurological symptoms, and I bumped my 130 loads up to their published max loads.

 

[DeanMk]

Gas cutting effects increase with higher pressure and with higher gas temperatures. Since "hot" light projectiles use faster powder than loads with heavier projectiles you typically see an increase in temperature. For the most part the pressures are the same for high end loads regardless of bullet weight.

So, yes the "hotter" load increases gas cutting but the amount is usually so negligible that it can be ignored. If you actually shoot a revolver enough that gas cutting becomes an issue you most likely have already had other problems crop up with end shake, timing etc. In other words the revolver has been worn out from other issues.

There are exceptions, such as the .357 Remington MAXIMUM (not Magnum) that was created for the metallic silhouette crowd. This round took a .357 Mag and lengthened the case to gain more powder capacity and ran at pretty high pressures and temps. Ruger quit chambering their revolvers in this round due to excessive gas cutting. The round lived on in TC contenders and the like where gas cutting was not an issue.

I wouldn't mind a '94 Marlin in .357 Maximum.
I don't know if you can get loaded ammo for that, but I bet you could cook up some great 180gr. & 200gr. hunting loads with that round.

Dean

 

[DLS]

I wouldn't mind a '94 Marlin in .357 Maximum.
I don't know if you can get loaded ammo for that, but I bet you could cook up some great 180gr. & 200gr. hunting loads with that round.

Dean

None of the big names manufacture this round anymore, but there are custom makers that do. Brass is available from Star Line and others so you are not out of luck and there are a ton of heavy .357 bullets available. You can always cast your own as well! A marlin in this caliber sounds like fun!

 

[DeanMk]

Thanks DLS, however further research shows that the Marlin doesn't possess the room to successfully action this round, since it is built around the shorter handgun rounds.
However, I believe T/C still makes an Encore available for all the "Super Magnum" rounds (Maximum included) and that gun has always intrigued me.

 

[Hatman1793]

158 grain semi-wad cutters were the primo weight for .38special. I am currently cast the LEE 6 cavity mold # 90602 which makes a very nice 158 grain SWC. Then I powder coat & size this bullet to .358.

2.7 grains of WST behind this pc bullet makes a target quality cartridge that will punch out the X ring on a B27 target @ 25 yards.

 

[41mag]

I've loaded a ton of various cast 38 slugs with a ton of recipes, often with WST.

From what I read in Hodgdon this load is below their starting spec, yes?

 

[coltemp]

Someone noted above about defense rounds. Always use factory loads for defensive purposes. Will spare you extra issues in court if you ever have to use that handgun for defense. Hand load for hunting and range, go for it. But stick to factory for self defense rounds.

BTW lots of good info in this thread. Have plenty of factory but nice to know if I do end up reloading later.

 

[edzz]

Someone noted above about defense rounds. Always use factory loads for defensive purposes. Will spare you extra issues in court if you ever have to use that handgun for defense. Hand load for hunting and range, go for it. But stick to factory for self defense rounds.

BTW lots of good info in this thread. Have plenty of factory but nice to know if I do end up reloading later.

Could you cite cases where reloads have caused defense issues in court?

 

[DeanMk]

Someone noted above about defense rounds. Always use factory loads for defensive purposes. Will spare you extra issues in court if you ever have to use that handgun for defense. Hand load for hunting and range, go for it. But stick to factory for self defense rounds.

BTW lots of good info in this thread. Have plenty of factory but nice to know if I do end up reloading later.

So, if someone breaks into your home and you shoot them with a handload, it will make things harder for you, legally, because the handload shows intent to kill, rather than simply a generic means of self-defense, if a store-bought round is used.

Is that what you meant by that post?


Dean

 

[coltemp]

In reply. Yes, Prosecuting attorney will use every trick in their books to try and paint you the responsible firearm owner as nothing more than a rabid psycopath who couldn't even bother to use regular ammo but instead had to make up something in his garage that was even deadlier.
That shows that you have little regard for the victim you shot. By making it you showed you had intent to try and kill this poor little robber who was only trying to feed his family.

Now of course we all know that is complete and utter BS. But it's been used in court before and will be again. For sources refer to the ACLDN
The video they give you when you join talk about this and much more. The presenters are the premier legal including Massad Ayoob, MartyHayes and others.
As much as possible your defense firearm and load should be factory meeting all standards. i.e. leave the tigger within factory specs, use factory ammo, basic upgrades only.

 

[DeanMk]

The joke here is that the handload is tested at an approved range, against a store bought round of the same caliber, chosen at random.
The test shows the handload is actually the weaker round, because you shot the perp with one of your target loads.

 

[Scout 38S]

158 grain slugs are the weight the factories use to regulate the sights on non-adjustable revolvers in 38 or 357. My plinking load is a 148 DEWC in a 38 case sitting on top of 4.0 grains of 231 and any standard primer. Clean your cylinders well and the carbon and lead residue will not hamper 357 length loadings. Hot 38/44 level loads shot in 38 cases will over time erode the front of the cyylinder, and spoil 357 accuracy. 38/44s are not loaded commercially anymore, they are 24-25OOO psi pressure levels that typically drive a bullet from a heavy frame 38 at 1000-1100fps. This was common before WW2. After WW2 357s became plentiful and the 38/44 load was relegated to history. SAAMI spec for modern 38+P loads is 20K. I don't shoot any 38s with anything hotter than +P.

 

[Pete F]

I inherited a Ruger Security Six, 6". My Dad shot .38 wad-cutters in it almost exclusively. When I got it it was filthy and .357 magnums would not chamber easily. I disassembled the gun and cleaned and polished everything.

For the cylinders, I took a .357 brass brush covered with a patch and applied Mother's Mag Wheel polish to it. I ran it in a drill and polished the inside cylinder, changing patches regularly. They came out bright and shiny and .357's dropped in and out perfectly.

For the barrel, I used copper and lead remover, but can't remember the brand. It worked great.

The forcing cone was not much of a problem, and I just used Hoppes solvent and a brush to clean it up.

 

[trevi]

I don't know what it is about wad-cutters but in my short experience with them, they shoot so accurately. I inherited some 38s and 357 mags before i had a gun for it, when i bought my 6inch revolvers, they surprised me in how well they shot on target paper. When i ran out, never saw any in a store. Maybe, i will keep my DW and shoot WCs when i roll my own.

Good luck.