Sssllooww twist rate of Remington 700 22-250...

[Alan12013]

Does anyone know why, in todays world, Remington still makes their m700 with a 1:14 twist rate for the 22-250. I'm looking at berger bullets for reloading and with that twist rate my number of choices goes from like 10 to 2, and it's not like it's 2 of their top choices either. I understand that they're purpose is fast shooting but when you look at the bullets on the market and what everyone is going for, it doesn't make sense to me. Basically if I want a R700 in 22-250 I have to replace the barrel off the bat. At least with my ole 270 I'd be pushing the extreme limits of bullet availability before I'd benefit from buying a 1:8 twist rate aftermarket barrel. With the 22-250 the twist rate doesn't match the bulk of products on the market... Any experience shooting heavier 50+gr bullets out a r700 with 1:14??

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[Goosebrown]

They're not stable most of the time but sometimes you get lucky. Worth a try.

Best bet is swap the barrel.

 

[Certaindeaf]

IIRC the original M-16 twist was briefly 1/14 and then 1/12 was settled on for quite a while. This was with/for 55gr ball of course.. going way slower than the 22-250.

 

[Alan12013]

I think it is the popularity of the 55 gr bullets. I read that a 55 grain bullet and 38 grains Hogden H-380 is the sweet spot for the 1:14 and 1:12. I guess it was a good bench gun for a long time and mostly with the 50ish grains. I also read one report that anything faster then 1:12 will over spin anything less the 50gr... If that was the case (I've seen evidence to suggest it isn't but no where near conclusive) then given the popularity of the 50ish grainers I could see their argument for keeping with a slower spin. But it seems savage is the only manufacturer that offers a 1:9 in 22-250 and some bullets suggest a 1:7 and 1 in 1:6 even. I'd have to think that one of the rifle manufactures would jump to be the first to switch. For me, I think I might just get in the game with whatever rifle lands in my hands (I do have 2-3 preferences but based on absolutely nothing, and p.s. I think savages look nice, not sure why people call the ugly). If it happens to be a 22-250 then I'll keep my target shooting sub 300 yards and like mentioned above, if I try the longer ones maybe I get lucky, if not I rebarrel when the time comes.

 

[edslhead]

The Mossberg 4x4 has a 1 in 14 also so its not just rem's. It is mostly used for light varmint rounds.

 

[Alan12013]

I think I answered my own question above... It's beginning to appear to me that experience is crucial and building a gun around a very specific bullet selection is the key. I just saw pics of a guy shooting 2.5 with 75gr amax at 710 yards with his 22-250 and the same load supposedly does .3-.4 at 100. There just must be a ton of varmit shooters going out buying the lighter bullets off the shelf.

 

[Kruel J]

I think you're right on there. I'll say, the .22-250 has always been on my list. Maybe someday...........

 

[Goosebrown]

22-250 and the 220 swit were sort of designed to be ultra fast (4000fps+} with light loads. It is also a little easier on the barrel than the 220 swift.

If you go for 22-250 consider 22-250AI. Which gives you some more case capacity. Custom barrel. Put it all on a savage and you'll get a fine long rande 22.

22-250 Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com

I actually have L.E. Wilson resizing and seating dies if you do go that way.

 

[No_Regerts]

Back when those calibers were wildcatted, bullets weren't as well constructed and BC was as much a oart of the vocabulary of most shooters as "bootylicious". A light jacketed bullet pushed real fast and a tight twist would have probably shed the jacket.

Remington has a funny history of under twisting, especially bu today's standards. 12 and 14 twist .22 center fires, slow twist 6mms, etc.

 

[Greenbug]

Maybe look at a 224 Valkrie instead?

 

[Alan12013]

Maybe look at a 224 Valkrie instead?

I've looked at it, I do like it on paper but I'm looking for a standard bolt action. I don't want to go down the AR rabbit hole just yet, trying to avoid it. Thank you Goosebrown for that link, I just read most of it, will reread tonight. I see a savage bvss in bend that's probably shot out barrel. I think you're right with the savage, I could go to cabelas and 90 percent chance they have an FV on hand in 22-250 and I could just buy a new barrel that I can have installed if I don't get the performance I want with the stock barrel. I have yet to read up on what the Ackley improved or AI is so I guess that's my home work for tonight since I keep seeing it mentioned. I'm also curious where I can buy a new barrel at. I know I can go straight to the scource but I see people buying brux, kreiger and barlien barrels that are what they wanted from smaller gun shops that are kept in stock.

 

[Goosebrown]

PO Ackley was either a coot or a genius and insisted that steep shoulder angles, 40* I think, forced the powder to burn in the case instead of the neck. It gives you 5-10% more case capacity and thus higher velocity. Turns out powder does burn more evenly with that case shoulder angle so most newer target calibers have strep shoulders as well.

if you get Wilson dies, the AI dies are the same price as the regular dies. if you're Reading, they're more.

Savage barrels are the same price whether you get an AI or a regular shoulder

 

[CLT65]

Savage girls are the same price whether you get an AI or a regular shoulder

Are you buying or renting? I take it you like them really wild, with Artificial Intelligence?


As to Rem 700 in 22-250; my most accurate rifle is an older 700 in that caliber. It seems to be more accurate than I am; on a good day with a good load it will consistently shoot .5 moa. I use 52 grain JHP match bullets with H380.

 

[No_Regerts]

PO Ackley was either a coot or a genius and insisted that steep shoulder angles, 40* I think, forced the powder to burn in the case instead of the neck. It gives you 5-10% more case capacity and thus higher velocity. Turns out powder does burn more evenly with that case shoulder angle so most newer target calibers have strep shoulders as well.

if you get Wilson dies, the AI dies are the same price as the regular dies. if you're Reading, they're more.

Savage barrels are the same price whether you get an AI or a regular shoulder

Another benefit of punching one AI is it nearly eliminates case stretch. You don't have to do all that trimming.

Maybe an 8 twist Tikka in 223? Punch it AI and modify the bolt stop and mag spacer and you'll get enough OAL and velocity to shoot a long way.

Ive heard rumors of fast twist tikka 22-250s as well.

 

[No_Regerts]

BTW, Im a former M700 fan and new Tikka T3 convert. My T3 Superlite in 223 with an 8 twist sends hornady 75gr boattails a long way with no fuss.

The 243, even with a 10 twist, is becoming one of my favorite cartridges. Fast as a 22-250, but also have the option to shoot 100gr bullets on deer.

Light kickers get shot more.

 

[Alan12013]

BTW, Im a former M700 fan and new Tikka T3 convert. My T3 Superlite in 223 with an 8 twist sends hornady 75gr boattails a long way with no fuss.

The 243, even with a 10 twist, is becoming one of my favorite cartridges. Fast as a 22-250, but also have the option to shoot 100gr bullets on deer.

Light kickers get shot more.

I've only been researching for a short time so learning a lot. I've considered that 243, will have to look some more. If I'm not mistaken, a huge benifit of the 223 is lower reloading prices? I do like the history of Remington and the proven performance of a r700 but do have my eye on Tikka and Savage. It seems Tikka's 22-250 still has the 14 twist. I'm thinking about anything will work because my primary goal is to shoot to 500 yards at this time and I'm really starting to think 2 guns... a smaller target puncher and a slightly larger target puncher...

 

[Goosebrown]

If you want target rifles. Savage is the one to beat. Tikkas are phenomenal but more hunters. The barrel nut system in savage has everyone beat.

R700s are meh. The amount you'll spend to get them working right is enormous. They are disappointing.

.243 bullet diameter is fine but 243 Winchester isn't the best choice. Good but not the best. For 500 yards think 6mmbr, 6ppc, 6 brdx, 6 dasher, or .243AI where the case neck angle is 40* for the reasons in the previous post.

With 243AI you'd be good at 800-1000 actually.

Loading for ackleys is easy. You load .243 Winchester in the brass you want (lapua... don't waste your time with others). Shoot them in your AI rifle and you have AI brass you just use in an ackley die set from then on.

Cost for ownership for a 243 Winchester and 243 AI are the same after the barrel which is why the Savages are great. $300 for a barrel and you can swap barrels with a headspace gauge in 10 minutes. Or less. At the range on the bench if you like...

 

[rcnpthfndr]

love throwing 115gr DTACS at yotes down my 243. there are a bunch of savage actions for sale on different forums pretty cheap too. Sub $300 IIRC, as goosebrown said Savage actions are a great place too start a nice build from and being able to rebarrel anywhere is a plus.
The RPR is a good platform to build off of. I have one being built into a 6.5x47L currently.