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Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by parallax, Jul 3, 2012.
I understand where the man was coming from. It was a party with a LOT of people at it... and the old dude put up with it until 2:00am on a Sunday.. that means the rest of the neighborhood was losing sleep and had to work on Monday while these kids were likely getting louder and louder.
Been there and done that (On both sides)
But I always stopped the party when the angry neighbor (Or sometimes cop) showed up.
I would never have considered for a second taking action against a person asking us to keep it down at 2:00am in a residential neighborhood. (and yeah, back in the day I had some neighbors give me the "Shut up you damn noisy bastards!" shout)
***EDIT*** Waitaminute! 2:00am Sunday means that it's going to be SUNDAY later.. not Monday... I hate that. I fall for that all the time.
I agree,even though he could have avoided it.
There is no more one on one.We have to get a bunch of MOFOs to stomp the one guy.
So yeah,good shoot.
The kids should have stayed on their side of the street.
He was probably aiming for legs, but he wasn't necessarily a good shot for doing so- He probably emptied the mag.
Whatever the case, good shoot. Isn't there some organization that helps defend justified shooters in civil suits? If not, there sure as bubblegum should be.
I'm down with donating to his defense fund if he gets tagged with any kind of criminal or civil suit. Not only would they have been digging bullets out of their legs, but they would have had to extricate my shoe from one of their arses, and my empty pistol from the other arse.
In gerneral, I flippin' HATE teenagers! It truly is the most dangerous time/phase of their lives.
might find this on cnn if there were a race angle to build up
Wow! Here's the story from the teens perspective Kid Shootings: Two Oregon teens shot by neighbor because of party noise Spoiler Alert: No mention of the shooter sustaining injuries consistent with an assault. If they sue this guy I will definitely donate money to his legal defense. Kids have no respect anymore.
Innocent children? I'm thinking they forgot the part about them drinking and all....
Here is the Mom of one of the "Innocent Children" Busted! Mugshots - The largest Arrest and Mugshot Database in the world In a comment section on the news story she claims that the scratches on her sons body and hands are not from fighting, but from getting thrown across the street by a 9mm bullet. So when she is not posing for mugshots, she is watching Bruce Willis Movies.
Wow, good find ereezy503!. the big picture is starting to become a little more in focus. drug addicted parents, of feral kids who are out of control. Who want to blame the old man next door for there little monsters. If there is a defense fund needed for this old guy, I'm in. I am pretty sure the old guy lives at 2345 6th street springfield,its a brown house, and the house where the girl lives and the loud party was at, is directly across the street ,its a blue house. ( as per KVAL news links)
I would have called the five-O for sure. I would have had a gun on me but I would have had a big can of pepper spray... you know the riot size lol. I would have dou ched anyone coming towards me..... and of course I would have asked the punks, what did the five fingers say to the face? SLAP! :laugh:
I wasn't there and I don't know what really happened.... but it doesn't sound like deadly force was something that had to be used. If the guy saw a bunch of punks coming towards him... he could have ran back inside and locked the door as he called 911 or something. Using deadly force is your LAST resort and you have to be able to prove you had no choice, and deadly force had to be used. This reminds me of the guy who shot at the guys who stole some iPhones lol.
What if he's crippled, or even just old and hella slow?
Guns as a "last resort" is a concept I don't really understand. Is the implication that you should have tried other levels of force before, any time guns come out? If so, that's a stupid rule... there are plenty of situations that warrant guns coming out first. Being immediately faced with armed and/or many attackers who apparently mean to do you serious harm- gun's comin' out.
Well from what I understand they guy who shot the kids provoked them first. He started it...... that is what they will say in court if it goes there. So let me say this... if you and I are neighbors and you are being loud, wouldn't it look messed up if I approached you with a gun in my hand? If I had to approach you, I would probably be armed but you wouldn't know it (I would CC). If I see or feel that you might be armed, or I was out numbered I wouldn't even bother with you and I would call the cops.
So let's say I did approach you to talk to you and you were drunk and you started yelling at me, and you gave me the impression that you might get in my face and maybe put your hands on me.... well I would have planned a head of time and I would have had my baton or pepper spray close to me in case you decided to push me off or whatever. Of course I would keep my distance upon making contact with you... but if at anytime you were to go for a weapon, yes I would draw on you and back off, and if you didn't back off and I had no choice I would shoot.
What I am trying to say is that you can't just go for a gun unless you see the potential for deadly threat or you are afraid that you might get seriously hurt due to someone's actions. Yes he may have been old and fragile and even one kid against him could have caused him serious harm or possible death if the kid attacked him. But if you are old and fragile you should probably keep your behind inside the house and call the cops. So to me it looks like the guy was pissed off and confronted the kids and decided to be a big boy and use a gun on some punks.
All of this cold have been avoided if cops were contacted.
When you own a gun, you have a responsibility to be level headed and use common since. If it's justified you use deadly force, but when you approach someone and you start it.... that's not cool and in a court of law they will look at you as if you are the bad guy because you kinda are and you started and used deadly force.
They were the aggressors by setting foot on his property. A senior, alone, 2 AM. Assuming that they moved in a pack, say 4 or more, then that is clear disparity of force. The man, as defender, could have had his gun out and aimed the moment they crossed his property line.
Edit; waiting on an actual news story to form my opinion though. Could have been GOM syndrome.
I understand your point.... but if that was me and I had the option of going back inside, I would have done so. Yeah he might have stood his ground but now there is a good chance he is gonna get sued. I look at it this way... if I have options and I have time to use those options, I will choose the best option possible. If he was cornered it would be justified in my book to shoot but this just sounds like something out of the wild west. The I'ma grab my gun and teach them punks a lesson attitude does not look so good in my opinion but to be fare I was not there and I can only go by what I have read. I have been picked on so many times on here just for open carrying in public and standing up for myself when the A-hole cop was threatening me by saying he was gonna take my CHL away... people were all behind hurt that I was making them look bad because I have a gun and a CHL and so do they. This guy goes and shoots two kids (yeah they were punks form the sounds of it) when he had options and he did nothing wrong? I am sorry but I just can't see this one way.
I find it hard to believe a 14 year old who is at a party at 2am and drinking is a sweet innocent angel. Especially when his mother was probably off getting high on meth rather than wondering where the hell her 14 year old was. I don't know about you guys but, if at 14 I was out at 2am, especially drunk, my dad would have whooped my ***. I have a feeling these kids tried to teach the old man a lesson and got more than they bargained for.
Biggie, if you yell at the kids, and they start advancing toward you, and by across the street you have maybe a 100 yards, are you going to turn your back to them to run back inside? If you were the kids, and had decent parents, what would be your response? To go inside I'd imagine. Not these kids, "lets go tell this old guy what's what."
Good shoot. People are teaching their kids to have zero respect and common sense these days. My kid would damn sure never be in that situation to begin with.
The whole thing could have been avoided by calling the police and letting them do their job. There wasn't any reason at all for this dude to go outside the safety of his home because of noise. Noise from a party does not constitute a clear and present danger with a direct threat of death or serious bodily harm. This guy put himself in a bad situation, from the sound of it was confrontational at the outset, and when he got more of a reaction then he anticipated he used the only option available to him- his weapon. Problem is he should never have put himself in that position and he's gonna pay a hefty price for it. Is there a single person in the world that doesn't believe these kids' families aren't going to try to bleed him for everything he's worth? Even if they fail, which I doubt, they are gonna siphon every nickel this dude has with him trying to defend himself. A phone call (or 6) to the cops would have been a far wiser decision...
If I was having a loud party, I would want my neighbors to contact me directly and ask me to quiet down BEFORE calling the police. This is the neighborly thing to do. You don't call the police 1st ... you ask the people to quiet down and if they don't, then you call the police.
The police are supposed to be called for things you can't handle yourself. Informing your neighbors that they are being too noisy is something you should be able to do by yourself. Most neighbors would appreciate NOT calling the police and just being told that they are being noisy.
How it should have gone down:
1) Party with noise.
2) Neighbor asks noisy party people to quiet down.
3) If they quiet down, good.
4) If not, then call police.
How it likely happened:
1) Party with noise.
2) Neighbor asks noisy party people to quiet down.
3) Noisy party people attack neighbor
4) Neighbor shoots noisy party people.
If I was having a party (which I don't, but let's just say I was), and was being too loud, I would EXPECT my neighbor to come on over and let me know we were disturbing people. If, however, my neighbor called the cops before even speaking to me, they would forever be known to me as," the neighbor who like to call the cops for no reason." Seriously are we so far gone that our immediate expectation is to turn law enforcement loose on our neighbors? What a lame society we've become. Afraid of guns, afraid of each other. Too bad, just another reason to move to the country.