Spouses and NFA items.

IronMonster · Oct 31, 2014

I dont have any experience with NFA items or paperwork. I was thinking today about spouses and possession.

This is all hypothetical.

What if I have a suppressor and I leave it in my wife's truck, she gets pulled over and the cop sees it and recognizes what it is? ( I know you would not leave a suppressor unattended, just trying to think how my wife may end up in possession without me around)

Or what if I have a SBR, Can my wife take it to the range without me?

I am assuming the answer is no, but interested to know the facts.

BillM · Oct 31, 2014

She's in trouble in both cases. Probably you too. Form a trust----that's what I'm going to do.

I currently only have one NFA item. A suppressor. Wife knows the combo to the safe, so the
suppressor is in the safe inside a small lockbox that she DOESN'T know the combo to. Before
I do any more NFA items I'm going to get trust in place---and then i'll have to pay another
$200 to get my suppressor in it. ((*&%^$#

Stomper · Oct 31, 2014

No, you must be in immediate control of the NFA item, i.e. you're there letting someone use your NFA item at the range.

The way around that is with an NFA trust and a list of trustees, who may possess said NFA item provided they are not a under age or a prohibited person.

I have a SBR'd Draco AK pistol, and made it a family trust listing all my kids, wife, and parents along with lines of succession for the trustor/executor and provisions for adding or deleting trustees.

In any change to that list or a change in the executor, you must submit a notarized copy of modified trust details to the NFA for their files. It's not too complicated, actually.

Hawaiian · Oct 31, 2014

Under your hypothetical, your wife is going to jail. As others advised, a trust is a way to avoid this and allow her access to the items.

jbett98 · Oct 31, 2014

If you create a Revocable Family Gun Trust, and you are named as the Trustor, and your wife is named as one of the Trustee's, and before she can take possession of any listed assets without you in attendance, you must fill out and sign/date a document that allows her to have temporary possession of any/all of the assets (guns/suppressors) that's listed in the schedule "A" portion of the gun trust.
Plus, she would need to have a copy of the gun trust showing her as a trustee.
If she was stopped and searched by the cops, she could then prove that she had legal possession of the NFA items.

IronMonster · Oct 31, 2014

Ok so another hypothetical question. Can members of the trust reside in different states? I understand the NFA item cannot be taken out of state but I am assuming that someone on the trust that lived out of state could come here and be in possession of the item?

jbett98 · Oct 31, 2014

Yes to your question.
I'm involved in a gun trust with one other person and he lives in Illinois.
He can't have an NFA item in his state, so I will be the Trustor (and have possession) and he will be a trustee.

Stomper · Oct 31, 2014

IronMonster said:
Ok so another hypothetical question. Can members of the trust reside in different states? I understand the NFA item cannot be taken out of state but I am assuming that someone on the trust that lived out of state could come here and be in possession of the item?

I believe you need to fill out the required BATF form before you take your NFA item outside the State borders in which it is registered, provided your destination doesn't restrict that particular NFA item (full-auto is currently a no-go in Washington State).

I believe suppressors going across state lines don't require the BATF form that the other NFA items do.

Stomper · Oct 31, 2014

jbett98 said:
If you create a Revocable Family Gun Trust, and you are named as the Trustor, and your wife is named as one of the Trustee's, and before she can take possession of any listed assets without you in attendance, you must fill out and sign/date a document that allows her to have temporary possession of any/all of the assets (guns/suppressors) that's listed in the schedule "A" portion of the gun trust.
Plus, she would need to have a copy of the gun trust showing her as a trustee.
If she was stopped and searched by the cops, she could then prove that she had legal possession of the NFA items.

That's good to know, I didnt know about the signed and dated form from the Trustor to authorize a trustee to have possession. I figured having a copy of the trust with Schedule A listings, and list of trustees, along with a copy of the BATF tax stamp would have sufficed.

Nothing like layers and layers of paperwork in an ever growing bureaucracy....

SCARed · Oct 31, 2014

Stomper said:
That's good to know, I didnt know about the signed and dated form from the Trustor to authorize a trustee to have possession. I figured having a copy of the trust with Schedule A listings, and list of trustees, along with a copy of the BATF tax stamp would have sufficed.

Nothing like layers and layers of paperwork in an ever growing bureaucracy....

That all depends on how your trust is written. All the trusts I've seen/heard of, its in the body of the trust that all trustees have full access to anything owned by the trust.
I've never heard of any trust that requires separate permission for a trustee to be able to use something from the trust. Why would they be a trustee in the first place?

Stomper · Oct 31, 2014

SCARed said:
That all depends on how your trust is written. All the trusts I've seen/heard of, its in the body of the trust that all trustees have full access to anything owned by the trust.
I've never heard of any trust that requires separate permission for a trustee to be able to use something from the trust. Why would they be a trustee in the first place?

That was my impression, too. It's been a while since I've looked at the trust I drafted, it's late, I'm foggy and don't specifically remember.

It doesn't really concern me because I'm the only one who actually fondles the SBR anyway. When I'm gone my heirs/successors can figure it out. I know I made it clear in plain English how it progresses after my inevitable demise.

jbett98 · Nov 1, 2014

Trustee Grant of Use.
This piece within the gun trust provides important identification for the trustee.
It clearly states the individual is a Special Independent Trustee and that they are permitted to possess specific firearms at a given time.

If your 15 yr old nephew is in the trust, does he have access to all your gun trust assets without your permission?
Can he take a couple to his school and show them off to his buddies?