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Spotters Guide to Police Military Gear

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RicInOR, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  2. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    A while back I was working a gun show and out of the 3-4 police officers that were patrolling around the show (i know right?!? safest place to be is at a gun show where any threat would be delt with quickly) all except for one were wearing the full set up straight out of iraq just black in color. it was rediculous looking, especially the well over 350lb 5'5" officer who im pretty sure hasnt seen PT in years. but 1 of them was still in a typical blue shirt with a vest undernieth. he didnt have LBE on, he didnt have a bat belt with 3 trillion things bolted on. He was more like what i would consider a Peace Officer to be. also he was personable. while the other 3 were walking around stink eyeing everyone he was interested in talking with people and smiling, and talking with kids. I actually flagged him down and thanked him for doing his part to be more of what we need in LEO's. I am all for better technology for our LEO world. dont get me wrong they are guys and gals like us that just want to come home at night to their families, but when they get dressed up for war it doesnt do them any favors and it sure doesnt help their image to the general public.
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    mjbskwim likes this.
  3. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I find it hilarious that so many night vision units have gone to Lane County.

    Nothing like the cops checking out the UofO co-eds after dark eh?
     
    Caveman Jim likes this.
  4. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    where did you find a listing of what went where? im sure i could find it but if you have it handy id like to see it.
     
  5. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I don't know.....but it could be....

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    robertg, Riot, Caveman Jim and 4 others like this.
  6. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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  7. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    Thanks. holy crap balls Clackamas CO is loaded for bear.....I wonder if its so multnomah co could say they didnt take as much and still have the support with Clackamas right there....
     
    mjbskwim likes this.
  8. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Montana didn't get jack, but considering how self reliant most of the folks living there are, one would believe that they can take care of their own problems without calling the cops.
     
  9. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  10. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Gotta play the devil's advocate on this one....I seem to remember a certain bank robbery in North Hollywood where cops armed with 9mm handguns and 12 gauge shotties were getting their arses kicked by perps wearing body armor and carrying full-auto AK 47's. The LAPD had to borrow an armored car from a private company that was servicing local ATM's in order to safely reach downed officers, as well as begging a nearby gun store for high-powered rifles that could defeat the bad guy's armor. Back in the "Adam 12" era there was no such thing as body armor, and civilian-owned AR-15's and AK pattern rifles were a rarity. Back then, the "less lethal" options available to police were pretty much limited to nightsticks. Nowadays they have Tasers and pepper spray canisters, and a lot of the "military" looking stuff we see in Ferguson consists of the sound projectors and tear gas mortars that are being used to reduce injuries.

    We gun owners take issue with anti-gun liberals who ignorantly want to ban "military style assault weapons" based solely upon the appearance and cosmetic features of many of these weapons. We cant be using the same flawed logic to protest the "military" looking equipment used by our police.
     
  11. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    so why not just use the gear when needed instead all the time like they are now? image is causing a lot of problems the cops have now.
     
  12. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    "so why not just use the gear when needed, instead all the time like they are now? image is causing a lot of problems the cops have now."

    Are they really wearing that equipment ALL the time? If they put it on to respond to violent crimes or crowd control, that really doesn't qualify as "all the time".
    The "image" problem is coming from the media deciding that they would have a much better riot if the cops weren't wearing protection and using dispersal tools...What number and type of injury do you feel is required to cross a "need it" threshold?... 10 cuts, 8 concussions? Whose husband or kid on the force needs to be injured on the job?

    I suppose they could just dress for a possible sniper or hostage stand-off just like Sherriff Andy would have. If the thugs were still like the ones Andy and Barney faced...the cops could make it back home to Opie and Aunt Bea. Odd...some people today expect real cops to act like fictional small town TV comedy cops and yet seem to forget that the bad guys today don't act like the fictional small town TV comedy bad guys.
    Sorry to disappoint ... but it's highly un-likely that the Ferguson firebombing looters were about to try to get away using a rowboat that the Sherriff knew would sink.

    " so why not just use the gear when needed"??
    Same for seatbelts? only needed just before impact.
    Maybe a roofer's safety harness? only needed just after a fall starts.

    Scene from a new series...
    FERGUSONBERRY RFD,
    Background chanting from unruly crowd wearing sport coats and ties..."we feel angered and frustrated"... "sometimes we question authority"...
    Andy; Hey Barney ... get Goober to walk out to the crowd and see if anyone throws a brick at his head
    Barney: Ok Andy...
    Goober; OWWWW!!!
    Andy; Hey Barn...lets go home and get our helmets, I'll meet you here in a hour...I'll get Aunt Bea to bake a pie, That always calms folks down a mite. Hey Goob..we'll be back for you in a spell..tell the crowd there's pie a-comin'."
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
    soberups likes this.
  13. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    Are they really wearing that equipment ALL the time?

    no but a the first possible little sign the gear is getting broken out as the saying goes if you have it you want to use it. and that is getting to the point even with their guns any little excuse to use them they are starting to , example: cop jumps over a fence looking for someone, the family dog fenced in like he should be and the cop shoots him because he was afraid for his life. something tells me if the cop was afraid for his life wouldn't the same be true for the bg. how long before it does become the uniform of the day????
     
  14. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    "example: cop jumps over a fence looking for someone, the family dog fenced in like he should be and the cop shoots him because he was afraid for his life".

    That cop could have been wearing blue flippers and a pink tutu and that dog would be just as dead**. What that cop was wearing didn't shoot the dog, the gun he carried didn't shoot that dog...the cop did. Rightly or wrongly, he made a split second decision, and with 20/20 hindsight it looks like the wrong one was made.
    Anyone know if the cop caught his perp though?

    "something tells me if the cop was afraid for his life wouldn't the same be true for the bg" ( I assume that bg = bad guy?)
    Unless the bad guy was wearing a uniform the dog may have not reacted, or the dog may not have had time to react with the bad guy's presence before he was gone again....but he was ready for the next guy coming over the fence. (what is it with dogs and uniforms anyhoo?)




    ** either shot or died laughing
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  15. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    There are ways to go about having the equipment and not looking like you just rolled off the streets of Iraq.

    The cop may be the nicest guy in the world but wearing full battle rattle does nothing to me but make me wonder why he feels he needs it and from all of my experience it puts a chip on their shoulder. There is no question a cop in battle rattle has different body language and tactics than a plain clothes officer.

    and as far as your compairson to mayberry, why would it take more than a couple seconds to get stuff out of the trunk or back of his vehicle. I dont know about the rest of you guys but I am absolutly tired of seeing police in LBE. I have asked several times and no one can give me a good solid answer why they need to wear it. The same level of protection can be obtained under the shirt and doesnt put off a level of uneasiness that you get when you see people in full gear loadout.

    How would the general populace feel if I decided that I was going to walk around every day in tactical gear with plate carrier and full load out? Legaly I am able to do this. between my chl and my constitutional rights there would be no breaking the law in open carrying and walking around loaded to the hilt. I would be though that it would be a quick way to meet Barney Fife.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  16. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    and what became of it? NOTHING!!!!! point being if they have it they are going to use it for what is designed for even if it could be handled differently without it.
     
  17. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Point is... was this cop actually wearing full tactical gear ? Or, are some here dressing him in Ferguson riot gear after the fact. He could have been dressed regular Mayberry and still would have shot that dog...unless the point is cops shouldn't have guns?
    We need to be careful here, when arguing that police use of "scary" weapons is wrong, we come awfully close to the gun controller's argument that civilians owning "scary" weapons is wrong.
    It isn't the weapon/gear, it's how it's used. If "Military style" cops that are supposedly highly trained are evil by default what does that say about "military style" civilians?
    I just saw on the news that Obama wants to re-visit the surplus weapon program to make sure police depts. aren't being over armed. Wanna bet he'll determine that cops don't need "military style"and neither, therefore, do civilians. His logic will always be that cops only need them because civilians got them...so civilians shouldn't have them...and he won't mean vehicles and clothing.

    Using the Ferguson situation for example...Brown was shot by a patrol cop with a sidearm and in standard uniform. The following events initially brought a full dress response that some in the media decided to blame for the escalation (firebombs, rock throwing and looting) so they were withdrawn...result? Still more days of the same violent acts. Are some actually buying it ...that the only reason there was looting and burning is the cops were dressed wrong for the occasion? Anyone wonder why media were embedded with the demonstrators so would of course been affected by teargas...Anyone see media camped out with the cops to maybe receive a few bottles thrown their way? Has anyone asked whether the huge media presence and crowds playing for the camera perhaps caused things to escalate more than the police presence did? Intense national media coverage attracts organized agitators like a light bulb attracts bugs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  18. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    Albin25, I see what your saying with regards to being carefull not to work ourselves into a corner. But what we are talking about here is falling onto two different things. one is standard every day gear worn by police all over the US and the other is police wearing and using gear in reaction to an incident. Accountability is the key. when a cop does somthing over the line there needs to be honest accountability. there has to be something other than a broken IA department that spends more time sweeping things under the rug than actually holding people responsible for their actions.

    In my opinion (and we all know what thats worth) I think that in a full on riot situation "military" gear is acceptable. is an MRAP though? well thats a different situation. The only reason i see to roll out an MRAP is for intimidation. Do you honestly believe they are woried about the rioters in Ferguson planting IED's? If the rioters are at that point we are talking a whole different animal. from what i can see they are just opportunistic thugs who have no care about justice or what actually happened. they just want a new TV/pair of shoes. these are the lowest common denomonator in people.

    We can all relate to getting geared up and the attitude difference it makes.
     
  19. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    ' Do you honestly believe they are worried about the rioters in Ferguson planting IED's?'
    Not at all (yet) never said I was, but I am concerned about shooting or throwing bricks etc. at responders picking up the injured or surrounded or even a shop owner from his burning store. It's not unheard of for first responders to be fired upon or in other ways attacked by mobs in these situations.

    "We can all relate to getting geared up and the attitude difference it makes". Certainly, we have all probably seen what even a Mall Cop uniform can do to some people. It's not what the outfit is, it's the guy they put in it. I feel the problem is more on hiring practices and training than what the level of protective gear is. And yes, if a cop does something criminal or deeply stupid there should be consequences ( and not the usual suspension WITH pay that seems to be the current trend for gov't employees). Perhaps they need to find a way for a cop to earn the right to wear certain levels of gear and not just hand it out to every rookie and parking enforcer (and NOT based on the number of dogs he shot).

    My biggest concerns are Government departments building their little private armies with almost zero oversight and unknown training methods or standards or deployment protocols.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  20. natef

    natef Gresham OR Active Member

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    This right here is a spot on awesome idea! set it up with requirments for both time on the force as well with qualifications. have it based on the person not on the rank. this would also open up an easier way for the general public to know what kind of person they are dealing with. would it ever pass? hell no. there would be such backlash from the LEO community about having to actually do somthing extra it would never go anywhere.

    Suspension with pay is a joke. If there is sufficent information to suspend a .gov employee there is sufficent information to do it WITHOUT pay. its not like they are being suspended on every acusation. There has to be actual proof to back it up and by just effectivly giving them a vacation thats complete and utter bull plop. If i get in trouble at my job i dont get PTO neither should anyone who I pay the salery for.