Spilling the beans?

[SA Shooter]

I for one agree that locating all the spots just creates a bigger dumping & fire problem. I propose the ODF "advertised" spots are kept on the list and forum members (I need a friend here who likes to shoot!!!) have their own list of public and private spots they are willing to share.

 

[thorborg]

"ODF is working on shutting down unsafe sites."
As they have done to 70% of the forest I had access to in my youth!
This was so predictable!!!
If we publish the sites then the gun haters can find them easier for picketing .
This, in my opine, (albeit it sadly seems to be short on consensus any more) is the quintessential example of many reasons why I'm glad I have less than more time to live.
You may want to stop reading here.
I'm glad to see your enthusiasm and camaraderie over continued loss of our freedoms while espousing how good it is for the people.. I guess if you are born in the city, cage or even back east, the loss of places most people don't go is no big deal.
Here, smoke some dope, you'll forget all about it.

I'm way beyond disheartened over the irreversible and continued American decline.
For the good of the people of coarse.
I am not naive, I realize overpopulation requires rules to maintain harmony if not downright control, however I believe our overpopulation has been purposely accelerated for the latter reason.
I don't want to be stuck in A box with every one else. I don't want decisions made for me. I don't want to be a communist.
But it's coming, then, like many other countries, what is left will be living within ourselves stubbornly clinging to the thought that neither fines or imprisonment will change the way we worship, feel or think.
Left to its own devise, sooner or later the people will not be allowed in any part of the forest that is not paved and designated. You will pay for that access, if you can get the reservation.
If there is to be good news over this it is no one can not take away or charge me for my memories.
I weep for the young who will never really experience the freedoms I have.
In the mean time, I'll keep leaving the places I visit better than I found them and pray others will also.

 

[Joe13]

 

[Mikej]

This, in my opine, (albeit it sadly seems to be short on consensus any more) is the quintessential example of many reasons why I'm glad I have less than more time to live.

I have to say I sound just like you, as I believe you have a year or two on me....."Glad I'm not young" Luckily I still retain wonderful memories of the freedoms I used to have.

I have to disagree on a point though, about overpopulation. Go to Google Earth and view the United States of America from above. You'll see there are billions of acres of underpopulated land. My father (passed 12/2010) brought that to my attention and he was right! Now, why we all want to/are forced to live all piled on top of one another is beyond me.

 

[70cyclone]

we live on top of each other because self sufficiency has been bred out of people and people want things they could never have/do if left to their own devices.
More things = progress...right?

 

[Member 34319]

No to get too off topic, I get what your saying @thorborg i do.

Trust me I get it.

This is going to go one of two ways though.

They simply just shut it down from the top down. IE those in Salem just call it a day and there is no more recreational shooting in state forest land.

Or two. They work with us to make it safer and more convinient for those that want to use the forest for recreational shooting.

Your thoughts and opinions are valid, but this thread is not about the control of the forest or the loss of rights. It is about something else. As for your thoughts and comments you need to realize that unless you step up and fight, we are already half boiled frogs. Not that I have a defeatist mentality, I just grew up understanding that unless you go all "Bundy ranch" on the Feds, not much comes out from it. So I choose to work with them on things like recreational forest use. Ion hopes that my children will get to do the same when they grow up.

 

[Koda]

I still think the idea is a slippery slope... think about what will happen when we publish a map and even more untrained new shooters arrive and someone gets hurt.... will Salem close off all shooting on public lands then?

my suggestion still stands on ideas to educate new shooters in a class....

 

[Member 34319]

There is that side too. With our booth system going to be implemented this summer in Tillamook and other places like Sportsmans Warehouse. We are educating lots of folks on things.

The map idea has been utilized by agencies like the US Forest service. They have a map brochure with a list of all the rock pits within Mt Hood National Forest. However the Mt Hood Forest sees a lot less use than Tillamook.

We have a problem and it is not just the Forest Services. It is ours. Some people think they can just do whatever out in the woods and trash up places. Most of those people are shooters. It is very well known that shooting is a good recreational use of forest land, but they see it as the only recreational use that is pretty much allowed to trash the forest. Not a good way to be looked at from the public's eyes or the Governments.

I think I'll let this thread run out for a bit longer. See what type of thoughts keep coming in.

Just to throw a picture your way, ODF also plans on getting a map out soon too. So this is virtually inevitable, giving you an idea why I would rather us the gun community have a little say in it.

 

[Joe13]

I still think the idea is a slippery slope... think about what will happen when we publish a map and even more untrained new shooters arrive and someone gets hurt.... will Salem close off all shooting on public lands then?

my suggestion still stands on ideas to educate new shooters in a class....

Yea, I'm going to bail on this thread.

Hope to H*ll no one on this side of the river thinks it's a good idea to follow.

Best of Luck & I truly hope it accomplishes what your after

 

[bolus]

I know you guys are worried about more people going out and shooting and trashing these places but the reality is that the forest service already knows about hundreds of places where people shoot and leave trash. Every where there is a road in the tillamook forest, there are locations where people shoot and trash.

This is part of a map I was working on last year with just some of the spots around Browns camp were people shoot. They have expanded the map this year over the majority of the forest and it is just dotted with areas where people shoot and leave trash (or shot up trees)



So if you think your shooting area is secret, if it is near a road, then most likely someone else has been there

What we are going to be faced with is either direct people to places to shoot that are safer, more open and easier to clean or they will just systematically close all these places.

We are outnumbered by the idiots that are hell bent to ruin all this for us. We cant shoot them and the sherrif does not have the resources to police hundreds of shooting areas.

 

[70cyclone]

I think a list is a good idea for the most part. It would allow those who actually follow rules access to areas they didn't know about. I definitely understand the safety concerns as I like to ATV ride out there and often wonder what I'm going to run into on a trail or just next to it. On that note its a similar issue with the riding trails, even with maps and signs the people who 'do their own thing' make things worse for the rest of us by leaving trash and going off designated trails.

sorry if I went off topic in my last post

 

[bolus]

I think a list is a good idea for the most part. It would allow those who actually follow rules access to areas they didn't know about. I definitely understand the safety concerns as I like to ATV ride out there and often wonder what I'm going to run into on a trail or just next to it. On that note its a similar issue with the riding trails, even with maps and signs the people who 'do their own thing' make things worse for the rest of us by leaving trash and going off designated trails.

sorry if I went off topic in my last post

The ATV community are also working on this. to keep trails open they also have to self police and clean up after the idiots. On my map, several of the red dots are on designated ATV trails. people are shooting down trails that people ride on with no backdrop.

 

[Koda]

forgive my negativity.... I do understand what were up against.
If publishing a map is inevitable, then start small at first and see how the more popular/bigger places fare with trash and safety befor giving out the smaller places....

 

[bolus]

forgive my negativity.... I do understand what were up against.
If publishing a map is inevitable, then start small at first and see how the more popular/bigger places fare with trash and safety befor giving out the smaller places....

My preference is publishing the areas where we want to direct general public. That's is one reason why the forest service is building ranges. We direct people to these locations are fire risk is reduced and clean up is easier. Hopefully, this will mean less idiots shooting at trees on ATV trails.

If someone found a nice spot all to their own, and they keep is clean, then there is no reason to share it.

 

[Koda]

My preference is publishing the areas where we want to direct general public. That's is one reason why the forest service is building ranges. We direct people to these locations are fire risk is reduced and clean up is easier. Hopefully, this will mean less idiots shooting at trees on ATV trails.

If someone found a nice spot all to their own, and they keep is clean, then there is no reason to share it.

that sounds like a compromise that could support.

I just hope we dont see an increase in new shooters finding these approved places crowded and spreading out more, and trashing more. Were giving them a place to go but not training them on etiquet and safety... what could go wrong?

 

[Member 34319]

that sounds like a compromise that could support.

I just hope we dont see an increase in new shooters finding these approved places crowded and spreading out more, and trashing more. Were giving them a place to go but not training them on etiquet and safety... what could go wrong?

This is already happening though. That's kind of the reason begins trying to direct people. At least with a map there might be hopes they would go to the next spot on it vs the next pull out.

 

[Koda]

This is already happening though. That's kind of the reason begins trying to direct people. At least with a map there might be hopes they would go to the next spot on it vs the next pull out.

Actually my concern is they would move on to the next pull out because all the lanes are full. As it stands already, come summer weekends if your not up there by early morning you wont get a spot. Im wondering if publishing locations will result in an increase of new shooters, especially since were saying they are sanctioned and actual lanes properly built....

 

[Member 34319]

Actually my concern is they would move on to the next pull out because all the lanes are full. As it stands already, come summer weekends if your not up there by early morning you wont get a spot. Im wondering if publishing locations will result in an increase of new shooters, especially since were saying they are sanctioned and actual lanes properly built....

We really can't stop it all. But at least with some idea where to go they will, maybe, venture in a bit further to find another suitable spot vs just pulling out to the next pullout. People are lazy, they want to shoot, their going to shoot. Give them the tools to hopefully be better and it may help. Don't do anything, then don't be surprised when they do wrong.

I was at wolf creek driving around and the 4 main spots were full. As I was driving to go to the next deeper in a car drove up and just stopped at the little area to park at the 1st of the two top lanes. He got out and proceeded to wildly shoot into pretty much nothing.

I pulled over and approached him. Asked him a few questions about how he knew about the area and if he knew any others. He did not.

I told him of at least three that were in the area. He packed up and left I hoped to one of those spots.

I've done this a handful of times and will continue to do so as I see it. However if an easier way to get through to these people exists. Like a map. I'll support it.

Another thing to think about is these aren't people that are like those here. They don't go shooting every week or so. It's a lot of one timers every coupe of months or so. Combined with your every weekend type makes for heavy trafficked known areas. We need to find a way to control the traffic in some areas. Especially areas like Browns Camp since OHV riding is also growing in popularity.

Education is huge, however people are lazy. They want instant gratification. Hand those types a brochure with a handful of locations, or make an easy Google search to find a map here with similar spots.

I see the good in this honestly.

However I greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone, definitely getting a good counter perspective.

 

[djaziatic]

Make the list.

A safe shooting area is better than a non safe one. People will leave trash at every shooting area, better to have it all in safe shooting areas than spread out in multiple unsafe shooting areas.

 

[bolus]

"ODF is working on shutting down unsafe sites."
As they have done to 70% of the forest I had access to in my youth!
This was so predictable!!!

they want to shut down sites that no respectable gun owner would shoot at. Like where there is nothing but trees at the end of the lane and a road right behind it. If someone was on the road they will be getting shot at head first. Over at North Fork creek road there is a place where people shoot clays that is right above the road to drive to the location. They are pointing their guns right down the road. People are shooting right down the middle of the ATV trails with no berm or backdrop.

They want to improve the places that are good to shoot Like clearing all the stumps to the backdrop, building up the berms and taking down the trees that are so shot up they are a safety hazzard.

Any of you guys are welcome to come to the meetings with the ODF. Reno911 and some others had a 6 hour meeting with them recently going over range design. They are very open to getting input from shooters. This is not like working with the DMV or messaging your legislator who lies right to your face. One of the guys at ODF carries himself.

Like I've said in my other threads, this is really the time to jump in and participate on having a hand in the decisions for what happens to our public lands.