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Special Loads in different magazine ???

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by bmtm09, Jul 15, 2016.

  1. bmtm09

    bmtm09 olympia, wa Well-Known Member

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    I have been reading alot lately on ballistics and correlating what I have been reading into real world situations. Considering the urban environment and modern firearms and the present climate we live in...Would it be beneficial to load a magazine with different types of ammo ? Half hollow point half ball ammo? 1/3 hollow 1/3 ball 1/3 p+p ? Or just carry different types of ammo in different mags.

    I ask for opinions because ...a hollow point is great for tissue damage but going through a windshield it might have problems. Ball ammo is great for penetration but on tissue it can over penetrate and that's an issue too . Would it be beneficial to carry a mag of each? .. Now before it starts I am not looking to go start doing stupid stuff and I know this isn't the most practical thing to do but I am just curious on what you guys think.
     
  2. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    I've known people who advocate the first half JHP's and second hardball. Thinking my own leanings will be to use a completely different magazine type for each--say, given my preference for GI-style flush-fit magazines in my 1911 having the hardball loaded in mags with basepads.

    Combine that with adding paint to color code (unmarked = General Purpose, blue = Malfunction Training Only, red = special loads only for the most dire of emergencies when legal aftermath won't matter, green = bacon-greased "jihadi specials") and...
     
  3. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well, but for that to really be practical, the different ammo would need to have similar point of impacts. I am doubtful how easy that would be to find two such different loads that will shoot real close to the same spot.

    There are lots of hollow point loads that offer decent penetration, and can go through things like auto glass. Pretty much any ammo that is marketed to law enforcement is going to be able to do that, despite being a hollowpoint.

    Are you talking about 9mm? This is the 9mm ammo that I use:

    Federal HST LE 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain +P JHP (http://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-le-hst-9mm-ammo-124-grain-p-jhp-p9hst3-p-58888.aspx)

    58888.jpg

    .
    Expansion is terrific, but it still penetrates real deep:

    HST3-face1b.jpg

    .
    Have you looked at all of the handgun self-defense ammo performance data at Lucky Gunner? If not, you should. Their data helped me to pick this Federal load.

    1-9mm124JHPHSTp9hst1sFedPrem.jpg
    .

    Do check their website out:

    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  4. Biped

    Biped Beaverton Member

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    Do you really think you will have time to choose the right ammo/magazine when you are forced into a gunfight? As above, do some research. Most LE HP will do OK on glass. Keep it simple.
     
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  5. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I am kinda on the same thought as biped. You could keep different mags for different ammo but you would have to stick with that thru the conflicts . As soon as you start changing ammo for one job you'll need the other stuff.
    As far as POI,I think that's not an issue. I have seldom had a quality handgun shoot very different with different ammo. Rifles yes,not handguns. JME.
    So my thinking is if you know you are going to have to shoot thru a car then put the mag with the ammo you think best for that in your gun. Or pick up the rifle?
    But if you go to 'Box of Truth' you will see boolits travel thru cars fairly easy. Those movies where they are are hiding behind the vehicle? Yeah they're all dead in real life
    I really think it's a non issue all around. You put enough lead on the guy you want shot in the car and something is going to hit.
    Maybe a few more with hollow points? Who knows?
     
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  6. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Every. Other. Round.
    HP/HB/HP/HB/HP/HB
    Just like the HD shotgun.
    Buck/slug/buck/slug/buck/slug/

    You're going to shoot 'till the threat is down/stopped anyway. Why put yourself in a position where you're forced to think about it?
     
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  7. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I dunno. How long does a gunfight last?

    If I have a 1911 and they have a glock with 20 rounds in it then I'm guessing I'll need to take to the cover I'm using and reload.

    If Im in my house I have a mag of hollows in it, a mag of hollows with it and a mag of FMJ. The reason for the FMJ? For shooting through walls or barriers the assailant may be behind - I know my house pretty well so I would feel comfortable making an educated guess as to where to shoot to hit someone hiding around a corner from me.

    Yea, it's even less likely I'll need them ever but that's kinda what I say about the gun and I keep it around anyway;).
     
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  8. CHLChris

    CHLChris Portland Metro East Love me some guns! Bronze Supporter

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    Two issues with your question:

    1) High quality FMJ is not easy to find. Hollow point defensive ammo is put together with the highest level of quality control and rounds like HST are extremely accurate and repeatable. 99% of the FMJ made out there is just target-shooting quality and not something I would trust my life to. Where are you going to source factory-made FMJ that has the same level of quality control?

    2) Self-defense situations are chaotic and not the time to be juggling mags based on your attacker. The idea that a defender is going to choose a mag of ammo based on the type of attack they are currently involved in is folly. We shouldn't be mall ninjas with assorted magazines of ammo on our belt, but simply have fully-stoked mags with the highest quality JHP you can find...and make our hits!
     
  9. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    The sheet rock walls are not an issue either. HPs will slide right thru.
    And are you really going to drop a mag,unload your gun needlessly,in the heat of a battle?
    We could make this another caliber you know what.
    But really the 2 reasons mentioned aren't good reasons.
    If I gotta shoot thru walls, the shotgun is doing that job.
    Plenty of energy after the sheetrock.
    If I think there is a chance I would need different ammo to go thru barriers I would always have a long gun with me.
    New York style reload
     
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  10. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    I stagger rounds in a single mag, not various mags.
     
  11. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Like Martini, in my 20-round HD 5.56 magazines I alternate semi-jacketed frangibles (DODIC AA40) with M855 penetrator.

    One of every two is gonna be just what's needed for unprotected soft or concealed hard targets.

    A person could also do this with soft points and penetrators, or Hornady TAP and M855. No thinking involved beyond shoot/no shoot.
    4237692969_28da27cc48.jpg
    POI is not going to be an issue at urban distances during a fracas.

    I use that 3M blue painter's tape on the bottom with a black marker ID magazines as "mixed" or 193, etc. but the rifle is always loaded with the mix.
     
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  12. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
    Everybody gets at least a double tap, no exceptions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  13. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    3 different recoils in a self defense situation?
    not for me. keep it simple. HPs are proven effective and easily go thru walls and glass. I question wht anyone would want to shoot thru a wall anyways? Unless youve trained with shooting thru glass I would aviod that too.

    pick a HP that shoots as close to your training ammo as possible and stick with that. Marksmanship is everything.
     
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  14. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    You won't notice recoil (must less the nuanced change - if any - in recoil from a different load) if you're firing your weapon to keep yourself alive. In fact, you probably won't even notice the noise either. Trust me.
     
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  15. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    I carry hollow points and only hollow points. I don't know the odds I'll need ball or penetrator ammo, but I bet it's way, way below the already long odds that I'll ever be in a gunfight in the first place. The one thing I'm sure of? I don't want non-expanding ammo going through a bad guy and into a good guy.

    I'm pretty sure my effort is better spent learning to place shots well. Or how to shoot under stress. Or running away...
     
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  16. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    well the difference can be quite noticeable when target shooting, If your not noticing it because of adrenaline under stress, that doesn’t mean it went away. Muscle memory is affected by how you train and program your response to the gun. This is just my opinion, I hear what your saying too.
     
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  17. bmtm09

    bmtm09 olympia, wa Well-Known Member

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    I do have training...quite a bit. I am comfortable with my handgun and my skill level. I have shot under stress and have done well.

    I am not talking about "juggling mags during a conflict..I was talking more about carrying two different kinds of ammo in different mags or in the same mag. I know what its like to be in that kind of situation...my question was based more on the hypothetical "what if" I have to engage in a handgun fight in an urban setting ..best ammo combo or one type only.......
     
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  18. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    in an urban setting the best ammo is hollowpoints. They wouldn’t be in use if they performed less than any other bullet, I would look at the reasons police use them exclusively. The less bullets you need to fire to stop the attack on your life the better you are off.
     
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  19. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    If you're really worried anout it, stick to bonded-core JHP's. Speer Gold Dot is one, I think Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T-series, in a nutshell the LE loads are usually bonded other than maybe Remington Golden Sabers.
     
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  20. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Ahhhh.... the "fruit salad" magazine load!

    I used to alternate JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ back in the 80's up until about 6 years ago when all the awesome JHP capabilities and options were vastly improved. Now I just roll with CorBon JHP, Hornady Critical Duty, and that Federal HST (above) is on the menu, too.


    I still do the same for my HD shotguns, 00, 1oz. slugger, 00, 1oz. slugger... in that order.

    'MURICA!! ;)
     
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