National Someone Please Explain The Legality Of Pistol 'Braces'.

[RVTECH]

OK I have been trying to educate myself with the legalities of an AR pistol 'brace' and still a bit unclear.

I have read the LOP cannot exceed 13.5" with the brace and the forestock cannot have a verticle grip adapter.

I also read where the brace is supposed to have a strap on it that cannot be removed or it might constitute 'modifying' the brace into a stock - yet I see a lot of pics of braces on pistols without straps.

I also read where it is 'technically' legal to shoulder the brace however:

However, the ATF used terms like incidental, sporadic, and situational; meaning essentially that your use of your AR pistol is open to the ATF's interpretation. So as some advice, don't be drawing a lot of attention to yourself when shooting from the shoulder—just to be on the safe side.

Anyway if someone could give me the basics I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

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[Member 34319]

I'm no lawyer or expert on the matter, but I think braces are essentially "ok" because of the amount in ownership. Manufacturers themselves no longer ask for approvals in new designs sighting "we haven't really changed anything essentially" which is a stretch considering the was this...

Now there is this...

The catch is original designed use. The ATF has yet to define a pistol stabilizing brace as a stock. Since it is NOT a stock, and the word stock is used heavily in the legal definition of certain firearms, they are legal. As long as these are legally not defined as a stock, they should be legal to own.

If anything ever goes to court over this, a lawyer would dismantle the legal verbiage in a second.

That doesn't mean someone like Trump will make them illegal in an instant.

 

[RVTECH]

Reno - thank you!

I was considering buying some sort of 'AR' pistol just to see what all the 'Hub Bub' was about them but reading about them reports are they are difficult to handle, not particularly accurate, loud, and kind of a range toy.

Nothing I am really interested in.

 

[cooper]

No modification, no foregrip , no rifle to pistol. 922R for imports

 

[Member 34319]

Reno - thank you!

I was considering buying some sort of 'AR' pistol just to see what all the 'Hub Bub' was about them but reading about them reports are they are difficult to handle, not particularly accurate, loud, and kind of a range toy.

Nothing I am really interested in.

7.5" and 10.5" AR15s can be accurate. They lose out in distance shooting due to loss in velocity. You can get sub MOA precision with those barrel lengths however.

They are loud. Less barrel, bang is closer to shooter. Pressures are still pretty high, based on 556 pressure curves, so gas exiting shorter barrels is going faster, more bang. Less barrel, more unburnt powder, more flash.

They are compact, and maneuverable.

Could be range toy or defense weapon. Either or.

 

[Stomper]

My two AR pistols are 11.5", 5.56, KAK blade-II stabilizers with no goofy straps, and LOP is adjustable w/o tools.

These are my primary full-on PDW's... I call them, "The buzz-saw twins".

 

[Member 34319]

Stomper...

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well. Part of the "pistol" definition is that it has to be under 26 inches, or a barrel under 16", from 26 USC 5845 (a) (4), however.. under Gun Control Act, a pistol is a firearm designed to be fired by one hand and having a short stock below the bore and designed to be gripped by one hand Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - Gun Control Act Definition - Pistol | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Stomper]

Stomper...

View attachment 707626

If only I could pull this off...

 

[saxon]

there is nothing in any determination letter that says " LOP cannot exceed 13.5 "

 

[CamoDeafie]

there is nothing in any determination letter that says " LOP cannot exceed 13.5 "

Not to owners of the braces, nor to the public, but to companies making them, and some have communicated that to public; although... because the ATF did not make their interpretations public.... they lost the Ohio case in 2018.

ATF Suffers Rare Court Loss in Ohio Unregistered 'Short Barrel Rifle' Prosecution - The Truth About Guns

 

[saxon]

Not to owners of the braces, nor to the public, but to companies making them, and some have communicated that to public; although... because the ATF did not make their interpretations public.... they lost the Ohio case in 2018.

ATF Suffers Rare Court Loss in Ohio Unregistered 'Short Barrel Rifle' Prosecution - The Truth About Guns

show me one company that states it can not exceed 13.5"

There were a couple of problems with the case against Wright, however. First, the ATF has never issued an official public opinion letter stating that AR pistols with such accessories — cheek rests, pistol braces, etc. — must have a length of pull of no more than 13.5 inches to avoid being considered an SBR.

again even when asked to source a ATF guide that says 13.5 not a single manufacture could cite one

 

[CamoDeafie]

show me one company that states it can not exceed 13.5"





again even when asked to source a ATF guide that says 13.5 not a single manufacture could cite one

Keeping Your AR-15 Pistol Build Legal | USCCA

A modern AR-15 pistol can be obtained complete or assembled with user-selected components. But it pays to know the rules!

www.usconcealedcarry.com

Edit. SB-tactical has the letters from ATF, but you'l have to ask for them, and its probable that the info came from a phone call however the ATF did attempt to prosecute the Ohio gun owner for an "illegal SBR" on the basis of the apparently secret LOP rule soo...

 

[cigars]

Stomper...

View attachment 707626

I like what you've done with your hair....

 

[ilikegunspdx]

OK I have been trying to educate myself with the legalities of an AR pistol 'brace' and still a bit unclear.

I have read the LOP cannot exceed 13.5" with the brace and the forestock cannot have a verticle grip adapter.

I also read where the brace is supposed to have a strap on it that cannot be removed or it might constitute 'modifying' the brace into a stock - yet I see a lot of pics of braces on pistols without straps.

I also read where it is 'technically' legal to shoulder the brace however:



Anyway if someone could give me the basics I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

It simply comes down to one or two hands. A rifle is designed to be held by two hands. A pistol is designed to be held by one hand. A stock or vertical grip makes a pistol a two handed device. A brace is a device designed to make one handed shooting more stable. ATF has stated that occasional shoulder use of brace does not get away from the design, which is an accessory for one handed shooting.

 

[CamoDeafie]

A simple bill to modify or repeal part of the NFA 1934 law to eliminate the SBR definition would surely go a long way towards making the brace/stock contention moot

 

[ilikegunspdx]

A simple bill to modify or repeal part of the NFA 1934 law to eliminate the SBR definition would surely go a long way towards making the brace/stock contention moot

Better to let sleeping dogs lie in current political environment. Likely to find the NFA restirctions greatly expanded if reopened in any way IMO.

 

[Kruel J]

Reno - thank you!

I was considering buying some sort of 'AR' pistol just to see what all the 'Hub Bub' was about them but reading about them reports are they are difficult to handle, not particularly accurate, loud, and kind of a range toy.

Nothing I am really interested in.

They are easy to handle, easy to shoot. Accuracy is well within acceptance for PDW and then some. Loud? Yep. Range toy? Nah, I think they make a perfect HD gun.

 

[RVTECH]

Eh, maybe I'll consider assembly of one.

Possibly in .300 BLK - I'm likin' the looks of this caliber! (cheap to load too!)

 

[Kruel J]

Eh, maybe I'll consider assembly of one.

Possibly in .300 BLK - I'm likin' the looks of this caliber! (cheap to load too!)

I have one in .300BLK. It's a dandy little HD option.