SO you want to know where all the .22 ammo is

[40calruler]

Where's Tonya Harding when you need her?

I owned a couple restaurants in Vancouver about 6 years back and Tonya used to come in once, twice a month with the most red necked out trashy looking dudes. From the looks of as the show says "where are they now" She would take a few pain pills to do a hit on the guys screwing over the rest of us with the ammo.
I did end up asking a manager to come to the gun counter a little while back as I pulled into the parking lot and a guy pulled in after me, got to the gun counter after me and the clerk greeted him by first name and gave him the box of .22 he said he did not have aside from the one his friend had "dibs" on. When he handed it to the guy I called bs and went to the guy I knew was the manager and he made the guy hand me the box. He told me that he has been trying to nip the issue of employees holding out for their friends but that he could not stand there and watch them at all times. one of the guys at the Beaverton Bi Mart seems to have that down and has been a total tool since the first time I saw him there. I asked if they ever got any bolt action .357 rifles in and he told me there was no such thing...many guns since he has told me do not exist or are discontinued when I have just been looking at them for sale at buds guns or other online sales. I really cannot stand the know it all employees who cannot handle just saying "I have never seen one so we must not carry it" rather than a snotty "There is no such thing" with a laugh like I am a fool for thinking there was. This is what I wanted Ruger® 77/357? Rotary Magazine Bolt-Action Rifle Models

I guess the Ruger American in common hunting caliber is all they carry and know about as they are able to stock and sell them cheap. He could have easily looked it up as I just had hours before. I am now happy I went with the lever action .357 and saved money but the guy has done things like that so many times I dread the gun counter when he is working it. Same with the ex navy seal, ninja, samurai warrior beer bellied old man at Dicks in Washington square. Happy to tell me about what a bad *** he is but when I ask for a certain gun he hesitates to hand it to me before giving me a bunch of reasons it is under powered, unreliable and he would never have used it when he was leading troops into battle back in the days of his confusing Navy Seal, Army ranger, and another one he listed that he had completed training in. Yet he worked his way up from a grunt....Must have been a real bad *** back in the day...yet with all that training he claims the only handgun caliber he trusts as powerful enough is a 44 mag.... Sorry just venting after these visits.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I owned a couple restaurants in Vancouver about 6 years back and Tonya used to come in once, twice a month with the most red necked out trashy looking dudes. From the looks of as the show says "where are they now" She would take a few pain pills to do a hit on the guys screwing over the rest of us with the ammo.
I did end up asking a manager to come to the gun counter a little while back as I pulled into the parking lot and a guy pulled in after me, got to the gun counter after me and the clerk greeted him by first name and gave him the box of .22 he said he did not have aside from the one his friend had "dibs" on. When he handed it to the guy I called bs and went to the guy I knew was the manager and he made the guy hand me the box. He told me that he has been trying to nip the issue of employees holding out for their friends but that he could not stand there and watch them at all times. one of the guys at the Beaverton Bi Mart seems to have that down and has been a total tool since the first time I saw him there. I asked if they ever got any bolt action .357 rifles in and he told me there was no such thing...many guns since he has told me do not exist or are discontinued when I have just been looking at them for sale at buds guns or other online sales. I really cannot stand the know it all employees who cannot handle just saying "I have never seen one so we must not carry it" rather than a snotty "There is no such thing" with a laugh like I am a fool for thinking there was. This is what I wanted Ruger® 77/357? Rotary Magazine Bolt-Action Rifle Models

I guess the Ruger American in common hunting caliber is all they carry and know about as they are able to stock and sell them cheap. He could have easily looked it up as I just had hours before. I am now happy I went with the lever action .357 and saved money but the guy has done things like that so many times I dread the gun counter when he is working it. Same with the ex navy seal, ninja, samurai warrior beer bellied old man at Dicks in Washington square. Happy to tell me about what a bad *** he is but when I ask for a certain gun he hesitates to hand it to me before giving me a bunch of reasons it is under powered, unreliable and he would never have used it when he was leading troops into battle back in the days of his confusing Navy Seal, Army ranger, and another one he listed that he had completed training in. Yet he worked his way up from a grunt....Must have been a real bad *** back in the day...yet with all that training he claims the only handgun caliber he trusts as powerful enough is a 44 mag.... Sorry just venting after these visits.

You're no Jeff Gillooly. that was code

 

[RK600]

I have a little bit stocked up of the good stuff. One of the few brands my JC Higgins revolver will tolerate reliably! Some of the other bullets won't even fit in the cylinder due to raised rifling ridges on the slug.

 

[40calruler]

You're no Jeff Gillooly. that was code

I had to look up the name as I did not remember her "hit mans" name. That guy looks like a total creepy fool. No wonder he was willing to work with a little girl back then. looks the type to make friends with the young Tonya. Looking at the old pics of her it is amusing that her days living in Camas now or at least a few years back she looks like a haggered drug fiend.

 

[Trailboss]

Wow, the first box of Mini-Mag I've seen in a year, when will the shortage end?

 

[roknHS]

ATK in Lewiston, Idaho just came back from a "forced" two week lay-off. They are supposed to be making CCI .22 ammo so you can find it on the shelf. I know people that work in the Lewiston plant. There was no reason the plant couldn't have been in production............all the gun magazine articles that keep telling us the ammo manufacturers are working night and day to fill shelves is bull crap. They are making more money in the current "hording frenzy" environment than they ever could have imagined. ATK has purchased Savage Arms and Weaver Scopes recently. The reason they made those purchases is because they've go so much money on the balance sheet, it made more sense to buy companies than pay taxes. Does anybody really believe the firearms and ammo manufacturers are trying to increase supply only to have prices drop? Why would they want to work toward smaller bonuses? Believe me, they understand the law of "Supply and Demand". They are very satisfied with the way things are. I wouldn't hold my breath and wait for things to get back to normal................this is the "new normal".

 

[Trailboss]

ATK in Lewiston, Idaho just came back from a "forced" two week lay-off.

ATK makes lots of products in Lewiston, ID besides for 22 ammo. Can you provide a link to the source for this report indicating it was an ammo producing layoff?

 

[Certaindeaf]

ATK makes lots of products in Lewiston, ID besides for 22 ammo. Can you provide a link to the source for this report indicating it was an ammo producing layoff?

He said it was first hand information. There's no "report" save his. just so you know

 

[Trailboss]

He said it was first hand information. There's no "report" save his. just so you know

Actually I think he said "I know people that work in the Lewiston plant." which would make it second hand, correct? If it was a scheduled maintenance layoff for two weeks, this is pretty common in industry. Shut production down and give the millwrights a chance to fix everything. For ATK to shut down a 22 ammo production plant for two weeks to artificially create a shortage doesn't make much sense to me. They are not the only producer of 22 ammo. I've worked in industry long enough to know that it just doesn't work that way. I'm not convinced at this point.

 

[U201491]

The cure = JUST STOP BUYING ANY AT ALL.
If everyone did that, it would soon become plentiful and cheap again.

 

[roknHS]

You guys that want some kind of hard copy evidence make me smile. I talk to people that have worked there for years. One of my best friends has worked there for more than 10 years. If you want to blow off my post.....I really don't care. The facts are the facts. The machines were ready to run, the employees were ready to work........plain and simple. There was no big scheduled machine overhaul............didn't happen. They were playing a numbers game that only benefits them, not us.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical guys, Call em up and ask why they were down for 2 weeks. I'm sure they will make something up.
I know the facts..............you can believe what you want.
I can guarantee you all one thing..........this is the "new normal". You can choose what ever you want for the cause.
I wonder what ATK will buy next????

 

[JackThompson]

Here's what I don't understand.

If one company slows down production, wouldn't another one fill the gap? Did they all form some secret OPEC group to meet in dark rooms and set the manufacturing rate?

I'm up for mistrusting my fellow man as much as the next guy, so I'm not saying that's not possible, I'm just saying its tough to picture that actually happening.

If someone could whistle blow that operation we would have a heyday boycotting their products.

Maybe the plant shut down due to some sort of regulatory harassment? Didn't workers question the forced layoff?

 

[U201491]

I believe it could be true. Companies get greedy and this is not unheard of.
The one thing I wonder. How they could be so stupid.
When the gun owners hear about this it will make their products toxic
from now til hell freezes over and no one will touch them.
Why would they cut their own throats that badly ?
Extremely DUMB DUMB DUMB !!!
People won't forget.

 

[Uberdillo]

Right now I think a lot of us are assuming that they're running at max capacity so no, I don't think another company would fill the numbers gap, but I think the shooters are largely buying what's available. That makes it seem like a dumb move with respect to the .22 market in general. If you consider that the .22 being made at that plant is CCI, maybe largely mini-mags, stingers and the sort, I think they have enough of their own niche in the high velocity rounds that, yes, if they just wanted to keep the prices up by limiting them, they probably could. I'd kind of like to hear from a bean counter or economist as to how dealing with a bursting bubble by ramping down production well before demand is satiated makes sense. I suppose no owner would want to be caught off guard if all of a sudden people stop hoarding your product and just go back to pre-panic consumption leaving you with warehousing months worth of production from the increased manufacturing rate. I figure you would want to do that more gradually though. Seems like a hard way to run things as I imagine I'd be looking for a new line of work if I was getting surprise unpaid vacations for 2-weeks out of a month.

The other part of the question is have the actual wholesale prices gone up considerably? When it hits the Bi-mart or wal-mart shelf it's pretty much what we were paying last year without sales or within a penny? If their price didn't go up while they had to buy higher, they'd be eating their profit margin and that doesn't make much sense either.

 

[Jammer Six]

You guys that want some kind of hard copy evidence make me smile.

That's pretty much what I expected, too.

 

[Trailboss]

I believe it could be true. Companies get greedy and this is not unheard of.
The one thing I wonder. How they could be so stupid.
When the gun owners hear about this it will make their products toxic
from now til hell freezes over and no one will touch them.
Why would they cut their own throats that badly ?
Extremely DUMB DUMB DUMB !!!
People won't forget.

Anything is possible but you have to ask yourself why they wouldn't just raise the prices they are charging the distributors when the demand is so high that they could get away with it. Rather we are seeing certain retailers who are selling at their old pre-panic prices because they are purchasing it for a discount over retail. An example, I've seen fellas buy CCI Mini-Mag for $7.39/100 at Walmart. Now granted, Walmart doesn't always have them in stock as they sell out pretty quickly but when they do, the asking price is the same as it was a year ago and before. Walmart is selling at the same retail which means the manufacturer is getting the same 40% of retail on their end. If they shut down for 2 weeks and produce nothing, they still only get 40% of $7.39 when they start producing again only they have lost two weeks worth of product to sell. They have no incentive to shut down and greed doesn't enter into the picture if they don't raise their prices afterwards. I see the same thing with American, sold at Bimart more than a year ago for $18 a brick. Now, it's $18 a brick. This means that the manufacturer is not getting a larger piece of the pie, rather with taxes on the rise and Obamacare costing companies more, it's actually more likely that their profit margin has shrunk. When we see small stores or Cheaper Than Dirt selling a hundred rounds of CCI for $100, that extra is not going back to the manufacturer, it's being kept by a middle man between the manufacturer and us, example Cheaper Than Dirt.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

I have met the enemy, and he is us. It's not the manufacturer, its those that have no problem paying the prices that the damn scalpers want. Those that got caught with their pants down are willing to pay double the Bi-mart prices. And as Trailboss said,, heathen scum like "Cheaper than dirt" are just laying in wait for those that will play into it.

 

[sun]

I'll bet that a significant percentage of the ammo that's for sale on Gunbroker has been sitting in people's closets for a long time, isn't current production and is old stock. In some cases the particular ammo hasn't been available anywhere due to not being imported for a long while.
A lot of folks are too use to paying Walmart's low prices. But some large distributors charge local gun shops nearly as much if not more than Walmart's retail prices. Plus the local gun shops often need to pay to have their ammo shipped to them from whatever distributor that they can buy it from.
The distributors basically raise their prices every year. Just because some of Walmarts prices haven't gone up much doesn't mean that other retailers aren't being forced to raise their prices.
How many shops has Walmart basically run out of the ammo selling business because they couldn't compete with Walmart's low prices?
And now folks have become so dependent on Walmart that if they don't get any or much in then folks balk at the local gun shop's prices.
One wholesale distributor that I know of raised their price to $280 for a case of paper boxed CCI Standard Velocity but they rarely can get any in stock. And when they do it goes to fulfill backorders so basically no one shop can receive very much of any from them. When a local shop can get some from who knows where, they're charging about $40 per brick. Then folks complain because it's not the low Walmart price. But if an independent shop can't get enough ammo to sell enough volume to pay their overhead expenses, then they need to raise their prices just to keep their doors open. Meanwhile Walmart sells tons of other items to keep their doors open.
I stopped checking for ammo at Walmarts around here because they hardly ever get anything in. They must figure that if folks don't find any ammo then they will buy something else. So it seems that about 1/2 of all of the Walmarts in the nation aren't receiving any rimfire ammo.
And at the ones that do, the folks are re-selling it to other areas where folks don't have any at all. From my perspective, they're mercenaries more than they are gougers. They're really not causing the shortage as much as they're spreading ammo to the folks who can afford to pay for it but don't have any available locally to buy.
We have a Cabela's that gets some rimfire ammo in stock, but they usually only allow 100 rounds to be purchased at a time. Hardly worth the gas to check to see if they have any ammo.
They allow a brick to be purchased online, but it disappears fast.
And they often charge an extra $1, $2, or $3 per box for .22 magnum over Walmart's price in some parts of the country. But Walmart doesn't charge the same prices all over the country either. They seem to charge more around here, It cost about $12.99 instead of $10.99 the last time I found some many months ago.
IMO the ammo shortage is a complex situation.
CCI is making so many new ammo products like AR Tactical, CCI Quiet, CCI Segmented etc... no wonder hardly anyone has reported seeing fresh batches of Blazers. There was one reported box purchased recently with a November, 2013 production date code, but that was the first seen in a long time. Otherwise most of it being sold has been old stock that brings a premium price. I think that CCI has been busy producing Mini-mags and their other more profitable ammos like Standard Velocity rather than producing Blazers which are bulk priced and sold at a lower profit margin.
Why is it that Remington has been putting out tons of Golden Bullets while the majority of CCI ammo sold during the panic has been Standard Velocity or Mini mags which are higher priced products?
Meanwhile, Remington was reported to be expanding their production facility. And Winchester began producing their newer M-22 ammo.
Yet it seems that CCI has basically been concentrating on their other .22 lines beside Blazers.
Supposedly Federal said that they will be back up to fulfilling production of their Bulk .22 backlog by the end the first quarter of this year in the spring. I guess that we'll see if Walmart will be getting most of it or not. Meanwhile they came out with their "Fresh Fire" ammo, small tuna cans of nitrogen packed but same old bulk ammo only at a slightly higher price.
It makes a person wonder if these companies are increasing production or just diverting bulk production towards new higher priced products in smaller packaging during a time of severe shortages to make the most money from the same materials used to make previously less profitable products. Then after it comes back onto store shelves, a $25 - $30 price tag for a box of bulk ammo won't seem to be so bad.

 

[JackThompson]

Good post Sun (Although distinct paragraphs would have made that easier on the eyes!)

That brings forth another question.

On the rare occasion that I AM able to find .22LR ammo, it has been name brand (Remington or Federal) but some Non-Hollowpoint oddball stuff that I've never seen before last year.

I haven't laid eyes on a box of CCI in over a year, and the Remington gold box has also been a ghost.

CCI wasn't super rare or super expensive before, but it does appear that these guys are focusing on non-standard rounds now.

 

[Botte Hork]

A few weeks ago I got a 8 month or so old backorder filled on mini-mags, I was happy I could backorder then at 2 places and both have been able to fulfill, so I'm good for a while at least.

The problem is that 22LR is relatively cheap. When ARs became the scarce thing, and also 223/556 ammo, that stopped relatively quickly due to the price. Not everybody is able to throw $1000 or more at a rifle "just in case" month after month and $200 (or whatever) for 500 rounds of 223 is not easy to spend each month (plus it starts taking up space), but $25 or $30 for a brick of 22LR is not as big of a deal for most people, so it's easier to spend the money.