So when does "IT" hit the fan?

[IronMonster]

I was caught up in the craziness there for a while. It can get tiresome, planning and waiting. Then I came around to the idea of living. That's right, enjoying today as much as I hope to be able to tomorrow.

Plan all you want, invest all you want. No one knows what will happen when it does hit. So stop freaking out about it. Live your life. Stop reading end of the world books, stop reading certain online news sites. Get outside, go for a hike, go
fishing, go enjoy life.

The idea is to be ready, not on alert.

That's my thoughts on it. Iron you may already be living your life, I don't know. However, I wouldn't worry about waiting anymore. Just kick back and try to enjoy things more.

That is great advise, I wish I could take it. See my issue is I cant just "enjoy life" because of my life. In order to just not worry about it I would have to make some very major life changes, which I am actually ready to make but cant in good consonance.

Most folks are riding a bike through life. They have things that could be loaded in a truck and moved across town. They have a job that even though it might be tough they could quit and move someplace else and find another. Weather or not they feel that way they are pretty free to make life changes without it affecting them too much. They can ignore whats going on around them and if things get bad simply change course without much trouble.

I am moving through life on a container ship. I own two business that require literally a hundred tons of machinery. It would take 50-60 semi loads easy to move my equipment and probably cost well over a hundred grand to move to another state not including the 50-80 grand it would cost to set up once I got there. I cant afford to move and even if I could I could not survive the lack of income that would come about from being down for months and then trying to start over someplace else. I own a home and rental property in Seattle but those are minor concerns but still another anchor. So I need to know years in advance what I am going to do if I am going to have any chance of navigating those waters. I have to know when to get out if its even possible. I have assets that need to be cared for that the market will have a big impact on. I am not wealthy by any stretch. A few bad months and I would be out of operating capital and unable to meet expenses. My overhead last year was close to 200 grand and when it is all said and done my wages are not much better than what someone working at Jack in the Box makes (although there is a lot more to owning a business than wages and profit on paper does not dictate your lifestyle. The company pays for a lot of things that a normal wage earner would have to pay out of pocket) Point being I it would be entirely irresponsible and quite possibly catastrophic to my long term well being to "just not worry about it"

The only way I could really do that would be to liquidate everything. Have an auction and just walk away. I have seriously entertained that thought but it would mean giving up on what I have spent the last decade and a half building. It would mean giving up much of what I think would help me thrive if things do fall apart. It would mean that if things did not go the way I think they are (and I have been wrong for close to half a decade now) that I walked away from what is pretty much my entire life for nothing. I am getting to the point where I dont have a lot of time to be wrong. I have maybe 15 years of life left where I can do what I do and make good money doing it. If I quit now I wont have near enough to retire, I'll have to go do something else. Something that is not nearly as enjoyable or rewarding as what I can do now and if I made the wrong call I would regret it the rest of my life for sure, where now there is only a chance that I will regret not doing it.

What it comes down to is I am stuck, Either choice has serious risk and problems. Either way it goes I need to have as much information as I can to make good decisions.

 

[Member 34319]

Thing is, as much as it's difficult to realize, what you want is what you want. It pretty much comes down to getting to happiness. If there is a struggle to get to happiness, it's better to fight for it, than sulk in an easy unhappiness.

I spent a long time working at an easy job, making great money, as well as hating it.

Finally broke down and left. Made it hard again, but I was happy.

Prepping, planning, all of it is not supposed to be overwhelming. It is not supposed to consume you. It is insurance.

I know lots of guys and gals with the mindset everything around them is going to shet. The thing is, those people spend so much time on those thoughts they forget they are still alive.

Whatever you decide to do, do it. Live it. Get to happiness.

 

[Just Jim]

That is great advise, I wish I could take it. See my issue is I cant just "enjoy life" because of my life. In order to just not worry about it I would have to make some very major life changes, which I am actually ready to make but cant in good consonance.

Most folks are riding a bike through life. They have things that could be loaded in a truck and moved across town. They have a job that even though it might be tough they could quit and move someplace else and find another. Weather or not they feel that way they are pretty free to make life changes without it affecting them too much. They can ignore whats going on around them and if things get bad simply change course without much trouble.

I am moving through life on a container ship. I own two business that require literally a hundred tons of machinery. It would take 50-60 semi loads easy to move my equipment and probably cost well over a hundred grand to move to another state not including the 50-80 grand it would cost to set up once I got there. I cant afford to move and even if I could I could not survive the lack of income that would come about from being down for months and then trying to start over someplace else. I own a home and rental property in Seattle but those are minor concerns but still another anchor. So I need to know years in advance what I am going to do if I am going to have any chance of navigating those waters. I have to know when to get out if its even possible. I have assets that need to be cared for that the market will have a big impact on. I am not wealthy by any stretch. A few bad months and I would be out of operating capital and unable to meet expenses. My overhead last year was close to 200 grand and when it is all said and done my wages are not much better than what someone working at Jack in the Box makes (although there is a lot more to owning a business than wages and profit on paper does not dictate your lifestyle. The company pays for a lot of things that a normal wage earner would have to pay out of pocket) Point being I it would be entirely irresponsible and quite possibly catastrophic to my long term well being to "just not worry about it"

The only way I could really do that would be to liquidate everything. Have an auction and just walk away. I have seriously entertained that thought but it would mean giving up on what I have spent the last decade and a half building. It would mean giving up much of what I think would help me thrive if things do fall apart. It would mean that if things did not go the way I think they are (and I have been wrong for close to half a decade now) that I walked away from what is pretty much my entire life for nothing. I am getting to the point where I dont have a lot of time to be wrong. I have maybe 15 years of life left where I can do what I do and make good money doing it. If I quit now I wont have near enough to retire, I'll have to go do something else. Something that is not nearly as enjoyable or rewarding as what I can do now and if I made the wrong call I would regret it the rest of my life for sure, where now there is only a chance that I will regret not doing it.

What it comes down to is I am stuck, Either choice has serious risk and problems. Either way it goes I need to have as much information as I can to make good decisions.

There is always a way but it hurts to make change, just be sure you want to make the change. If it cost too much to ship then sell it and buy more modern equipment for the tax break. Move where your skills are needed and will earn you a good income. Get out of debt if you can and try to keep debt to what it takes to operate.

As a young man for lots of reasons I went into construction. I learned as many skills as possible and used them as the opportunities arose. I have no regrets and the hard work kept me healthy and made me a good living plus gave me a life of freedom few will ever know. I thank my God for all I have been given.

What I have learned is it isn't just skill that will get you what you want, it's opportunity. That is what has been taken away and given people no hope. Over 100 million out of work now with no future so if you decide to change make sure you make the right choice.

 

[IronMonster]

There is no "making sure it's the right choice". If there was I would have already made it


It's more like, should I jump off this side of the cliff or the other side? I don't know what's at the bottom either way.

 

[IronMonster]

Actually that's not true, I have made my choice. I am still here. It's that many of the reasons why I have chosen to be here are good reasons but outside my control. I feel trapped into making the choice to stay and resent it a little. I should get over it and commit to being here. Easy to say and hard to do.

If I was single and had to think of no one but me I would already be gone, right move or not.
But I have a wife and kids, their needs and wants to be considered not to mention employees, contracts and obligations.

Many days I feel ready to jump ship, but I am always back paddling tomorrow.

 

[rick benjamin]

Shoot, Your behind the times man, That WAS my avatar. Thats so last month

I like it. What more can I say?
Hey you might like these guys

 

[Just Jim]

There is no "making sure it's the right choice". If there was I would have already made it


It's more like, should I jump off this side of the cliff or the other side? I don't know what's at the bottom either way.

Actually you do know. Everyone thinks they can't see the future but day by day it's being shown to you. I suspect you are are smart man by the gains you have made so I am sure you see what's coming and how to make a living when it gets here. Most preppers are buying life insurance with their preps but if I had business knowledge I would be getting stuff together to make a living when everyone else is just staying alive.

Was reading today how countries in the world are forming a new world Bank to crash the dollar. Man has a business and raw materials when it happens then he can name his own price. That is the real preppers dream.

 

[IronMonster]

I like it. What more can I say?
Hey you might like these guys
View attachment 220212

I like them too, thing is the guy I am using now? He is actually my company Monster Metal logo

 

[forefathersrback]

I agree, Great Thread.

Forefathersrback, what would be an acceptable level of United States Public Debt?

__________________________________________________________________

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/kids/history/history.htm

US Debt clock.org...... MTpockets, this old TIMER isn't smart enough to know what is acceptable, however what I do know is our US nation debt is at 18 TRILLION and counting UP. Us unfunded liabilities are at 95 TRILLION and counting UP. Certainly not rocket science to figure out that is unacceptable we should be having a surplus in this country. However, our jobs are sent over seas. The jobs that we do have in this country are service orientated with a minimum wage sticker at best! And further more the number they give on the debt clock, I would figure them to be more doubled than what they are saying. As far as peoples personal debt, I think a good percentage of the population is spending more than their income. Thank you very much for asking my opinion, I would like know yours. Thanks again.

 

[rick benjamin]

I think Just Jim is correct. We see the coming storm.
Can we effect a change in the coming economic train wreck?
Was told "It's business finance", "I don't have the big picture".
I took a course in accounting.
Decided we are all being lied to, smoke and mirrors.

Focused on my own financial picture.
Paid off all my debts. Reduced all negative cash flow.
Was forced to retire. I am doing all right. Utilities paid, food, doing hobbies. Bought my wife a near-new car.

Ask yourselves "what is your debt load"?
Are your payments reducing your debt load?
What to do? Don't borrow any more.Pay off your debt.

 

[IronMonster]

There is a lot to "acceptable" debt. The world reserve currency must have a trade deficit. This is known as the Triffin Paradox. There must be an abundance of currency to allow other country's to trade in the USD. How is currency created? All currency is loaned into existence in the form of a Treasury note which is nothing more than a IOU to the government.

Personally I think currency is the problem. The world is not run by governments, its run by bankers who run governments. The Federal Reserve is nothing but a private for profit group of bank mobsters who trade pretend money printed out of thin air for tangible wealth (the labor of the American public)

What is a better question in my opinion is why do we have a government we cant afford? Currently I think we are borrowing something like 40 cents of every dollar the government spends. The answer is simple, reduce the size of government or increase tax revenue . Those are the only two viable options, both of which are political suicide and will never happen. What will happen? We will continue to make promises we cant keep and borrowing money till no one will lend us any at which point the system will implode and a new system will arise out of the ashes. A collapse of the monetary system is not the end of the world. Its happened in dozens of country's around the world in just my lifetime. Fiat money systems collapse, to date there is a 100% fail ratio. Every fiat money system ever tried has collapsed. You think the current one will be the one in the entire history of money creation that will break the trend?

 

[rick benjamin]

Those questions just make my tummy upset because I only have one vote.
Instead of "we", say "I".
Now I must choose to stay or leave this country. I choose to stay.
I also choose to live my life by my rules...
Occasionally, society's rules and my rules are congruent.
Fortunately, I can follow my rules without the gov or society bothering me.
As a result, my blood pressure is lower, I don't sweat the big picture.
This week, my scope of control is limited to the refrigerator leaking water.
And the wind storm that knocked-out power (fired-up the generator).
And tooling-up to complete an 80% lower.
And sleeping-in if I want to (I lie, the shepherd, lab, and heeler won't let me).

 

[forefathersrback]

Rick, just Jim, Taku, Bert Gummer, and several other members have been talking about this for a long time. I agree. I am very conservative, I pay my debts off, and never over extend. I am like a damn coyote, I pick up the scraps that others pass by, just to insure that my income does not undermine my debts. I have been in the construction industry for 35 yrs. I have seen the good times, the bad times. The storm that is coming, is an F5. I worry about what my families future will be. {children & grandchildren}

 

[U201491]

That is great advise, I wish I could take it. See my issue is I cant just "enjoy life" because of my life. In order to just not worry about it I would have to make some very major life changes, which I am actually ready to make but cant in good consonance.

Most folks are riding a bike through life. They have things that could be loaded in a truck and moved across town. They have a job that even though it might be tough they could quit and move someplace else and find another. Weather or not they feel that way they are pretty free to make life changes without it affecting them too much. They can ignore whats going on around them and if things get bad simply change course without much trouble.

I am moving through life on a container ship. I own two business that require literally a hundred tons of machinery. It would take 50-60 semi loads easy to move my equipment and probably cost well over a hundred grand to move to another state not including the 50-80 grand it would cost to set up once I got there. I cant afford to move and even if I could I could not survive the lack of income that would come about from being down for months and then trying to start over someplace else. I own a home and rental property in Seattle but those are minor concerns but still another anchor. So I need to know years in advance what I am going to do if I am going to have any chance of navigating those waters. I have to know when to get out if its even possible. I have assets that need to be cared for that the market will have a big impact on. I am not wealthy by any stretch. A few bad months and I would be out of operating capital and unable to meet expenses. My overhead last year was close to 200 grand and when it is all said and done my wages are not much better than what someone working at Jack in the Box makes (although there is a lot more to owning a business than wages and profit on paper does not dictate your lifestyle. The company pays for a lot of things that a normal wage earner would have to pay out of pocket) Point being I it would be entirely irresponsible and quite possibly catastrophic to my long term well being to "just not worry about it"

The only way I could really do that would be to liquidate everything. Have an auction and just walk away. I have seriously entertained that thought but it would mean giving up on what I have spent the last decade and a half building. It would mean giving up much of what I think would help me thrive if things do fall apart. It would mean that if things did not go the way I think they are (and I have been wrong for close to half a decade now) that I walked away from what is pretty much my entire life for nothing. I am getting to the point where I dont have a lot of time to be wrong. I have maybe 15 years of life left where I can do what I do and make good money doing it. If I quit now I wont have near enough to retire, I'll have to go do something else. Something that is not nearly as enjoyable or rewarding as what I can do now and if I made the wrong call I would regret it the rest of my life for sure, where now there is only a chance that I will regret not doing it.

What it comes down to is I am stuck, Either choice has serious risk and problems. Either way it goes I need to have as much information as I can to make good decisions.

I truly wish I had the problems you do. I made all the wrong turns and bumped into the ENRON CEO twins or the term clones is a better description. The problems you have with those assets would actually be a blessing.

 

[forefathersrback]

There is a lot to "acceptable" debt. The world reserve currency must have a trade deficit. This is known as the Triffin Paradox. There must be an abundance of currency to allow other country's to trade in the USD. How is currency created? All currency is loaned into existence in the form of a Treasury note which is nothing more than a IOU to the government.

Personally I think currency is the problem. The world is not run by governments, its run by bankers who run governments. The Federal Reserve is nothing but a private for profit group of bank mobsters who trade pretend money printed out of thin air for tangible wealth (the labor of the American public)

What is a better question in my opinion is why do we have a government we cant afford? Currently I think we are borrowing something like 40 cents of every dollar the government spends. The answer is simple, reduce the size of government or increase tax revenue . Those are the only two viable options, both of which are political suicide and will never happen. What will happen? We will continue to make promises we cant keep and borrowing money till no one will lend us any at which point the system will implode and a new system will arise out of the ashes. A collapse of the monetary system is not the end of the world. Its happened in dozens of country's around the world in just my lifetime. Fiat money systems collapse, to date there is a 100% fail ratio. Every fiat money system ever tried has collapsed. You think the current one will be the one in the entire history of money creation that will break the trend?

IronMonster, Us dollar,gold,silver,are all fiat currencies to me. The only things of value are food,water,guns,and ammo.

 

[erudne]

Like most I have had some very dark days which seemed to start as I entered adulthood and continued on in an intermittent manner for decades. In retrospect I see that I have had a dang fortunate existence, living in the greatest nation that history has ever seen; Despite having a POTUS that wants to rescind the 13th Amd. (as well as all the rest) I believe that once he leaves the stage America will reemerge better than ever, of course this might take a few decades and some blood will be shed and Feelings Bruised in the process. What buoys my hope is that America is a unique nation and, despite the Cultural Marxists, Americans are a Unique PPL.

 

[CoastRange57]

Iron Monster:

You sound like a guy who has it together and going the right way. I do not disagree with a thing you say. I was much the same way back in 2008 with a business doing 1.3 million a year and then 2008 came along and I saw my business virtually collapse in less than 6 months. I thought 2 of us could make it work and ride it out. Not true. The business simply died. Fortunately everything was paid for.

The stress of my life in general over the last 30 years which was very comparable to what you related earlier and trying to save the business and my retirement got to me, and I ended up in the hospital with a ruptured colon and dying. I beat that bastard back and made it. My wife had to take care of the failing business and liquidate it for money. We survived beaten and bruised. Things are different now.

Just an old man ranting here, and no need to answer my posed questions but, Do you have sufficient disability insurance coverage ??? I did not.....Do you have at least 2 million in life insurance for your family ?? I did, and it was a most comforting thing in those days when I was dying.

My dreams of the paid for business piling up cash for me for 10 years and selling it to my son, then fishing for another 15 kind of went away. Life can change in the blink of an eye and you will not have a damn thing to say about it.

I fully understand the position you are in. I was there once. All I want to do now is pay my bills, make a small living, take my grandsons fishing and live long enough to dance with my 5 year old granddaughters at their weddings.

 

[IronMonster]

IronMonster, Us dollar,gold,silver,are all fiat currencies to me. The only things of value are food,water,guns,and ammo.

Well, I know what you mean but they are not Fiat. Fiat means "by decree" or "Arbitrary Order" Paper money being only worth something by the government saying it is. Silver is primarily a industrial metal in today's world, most of what has existed and been mined has been consumed. It does have a secondary market as a monetary metal but if there was no monetary demand it would still have value. Gold may not have as many industrial uses, but it has been money for 5000 years. It will be money after the dollar is no more. There is only so much of either, it cant be printed and brought into existence by the stroke of a bankers pen.

Gold and Silver can be part of what you hold with your excess wealth. It should never be the first thing you buy. Its what you buy when you have everything else covered and something left over. Real property of any sort, anything that is not paper money or numbers in a computer.

 

[IronMonster]

Iron Monster:

All I want to do now is pay my bills, make a small living, take my grandsons fishing and live long enough to dance with my 5 year old granddaughters at their weddings.

Sounds like some fantastic goals.

Here is the rest of my story. On August 11th 2011 my oldest son hung himself in my shop. He was an employee and was working late by himself. He got a call from his long term girlfriend who was away at collage whom he had plans to marry. From what I understand she told him she had met someone else and it was over. I found him the next morning hanging from the gantry crane by a nylon sling. He was 19 year old. I dont know what went though his head. He was an amazing kid, well liked by everybody. He had close to 400 people show up for his service. 99.9 KISW the local rock station even had a moment of silence for him on air. BJ Shea the morning DJ had known him and the story hit pretty close to home. He was a big part of everything. The only one of my three boys that was here in Seattle, The younger ones lived with there mom in southern Oregon and have since they where little so I have never been a day to day part of their lives. I have really tried to develop a relationship with them but they are 800 miles away so interaction is limited.

Anyway to say its been hard on me is a understatement. Everything changed and its about that time that everything turned dark and gloomy in the world for me. I started focusing on everything that was wrong in the world and honestly since he died I have not put the energy into my shop that I once did. I used to work 12-14 hours a day and there was no place I would rather be. Now I am there just long enough to do what has to be done and often I struggle to do even that. My goals have changed, whats important has changed.

There is no great mystery why I felt like things where falling apart around me. I doubt anyone would fault me for being doom and gloom.

I really would like to simplify my life. Currently my things own me. I am a slave to my shop and taking care of all this stuff that used to be really important to me and now just part of my day to day life. Its not that I hate it, I actually enjoy what I do, however I have lost much of the passion that I had. I keep paddling. Maybe that's why I am ready for the S to hit the F, I'll have something real to deal with, focus my energy on. A reason to work hard. I am good under pressure and need things to occupy my mind.


So anyway, there is that. Probably explains a lot.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

This is true. Prepare, but don't let it stop you from enjoying life. The media has demonized the word "survivalist." Some nut shoots a cop and runs into the woods and suddenly he's a "survivalist." Some years ago, one prepper posted that he preferred "survivor," rather than "survivalist." He maintains the positive outlook that he will survive. The media calls preppers "gloom & doom survivalists," but in reality they are the ones thinking positive and believing they will make it. Too many people have the fatalistic outlook that if disaster strikes there is nothing they can do. Think positive, prepare, don't be caught flatfooted by the coming s***storm.

Have fun prepping. The more you are prepped, the better you will feel about the future. But recognize that you will never be 100% perfectly prepared for everything. You are just better off than most. So enjoy life. It's fun making that garden, customizing that "survival" gun, dehydrating food, making jerky, canning, etc.