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So tell me why I should not buy this (SIG 516 Pistol)

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by The Heretic, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p516-10-pistol-with-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace.aspx

    Ten inch barrel AR pistol, piston system with 4 position valve, with "stabilizing brace".

    I've wanted an AR just to have one, but I am not a fan of ARs for self-defense (didn't like DIG, felt the platform was too fragile compared to AK, etc.), but they are superior platforms for accuracy and I do like the ability to swap out uppers - which is why I would want the "pistol" version so I could run it with the 10" barrel and brace, then make it a rifle by putting on a 16" barrel (maybe something like 300 BLK or something like that for pig hunting) - maybe someday if I get real ambitious, an upper with an integral suppressor, or just put a suppressor on the short barrel.

    I like the piston system, I like the 4 position valve, I like the full length rail (I am a big fan of scout scopes), I like the BUIS) I like the SIG name (or Colt, or S&W) - I prefer not to build my own - I think there is value in having an off-the-shelf platform and modifying it from there. The fact that I will pay more is not a huge consideration for me.
     
  2. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Don't buy one, Buy two or three or.....
     
  3. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    What is the asking price on that?

    I just built a 10 inch AR pistol in 300 Black a month or so ago. I am also waiting on a stamp for a integral suppressor that is at my dealer. I like to build them myself rather than buy them but it is a real nice weapon!
     
  4. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    About $1500
     
  5. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You can only shoot one at a time.
     
  6. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Nuh uh.. Strap one to each arm and get all ghetto.

    Bud's has the cheapest one for about a grand and it's "Make a offer" eligible.
     
  7. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how it will shoot sideways. o_O
     
  8. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Three, one for each arm and one for a leg.

    Planet_Terror_5.jpg
     
  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Additional advantage - if you have a concealed carry permit, it a pistol configuration, it could be carried concealed legally.
     
    mjbskwim likes this.
  10. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Because it's a pistol, it can also be carried loaded, unlike a short barreled rifle. I really cannot give you a good reason to not purchase it because I have one and love it.

    tb
     
  11. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It would be assumed that would be the case for a concealed handgun, but I didn't think about the fact that it could also be kept in a vehicle loaded.

    Not that I often carry a "long gun" in a vehicle while loaded, but in this sense, it could be done without fear of any trouble in court (a LEO might not understand this and go ahead and arrest you anyway since it looks like a rifle, but it wouldn't hold up in court - assuming you have a permit).

    Better yet, would be the fact that you could carry it "loaded" on a motorcycle or ATV, or in a Jeep or something like that - in a secure mount of course. I could see this for hog hunting. That said, for safety sake, I would not have a round in the chamber while moving.

    My only concerns about these "handguns" are:

    a) "Armor piercing" ammo for handguns.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...r-input-on-armor-piercing-all-copper-bullets/

    b) That someone at either the state or federal level will become alarmed at the configuration.

    But for now, they seem like a nice alternative to an SBR, and since they can be converted to a rifle and back again, there is that option too. The best of both worlds (except for a bullpup, most of which do not allow for swapping out the barrels/uppers).
     
  12. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    As long as you aren't borrowing money to buy it, go ahead and get it. You know you want it.
     
  13. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The only debt I have is a mortgage.

    I just got a credit card after not having one for almost 8 years, but I only use it for online purchases and then pay the full balance off each month. The reason I got it is the protection of a credit card for disputes, online purchases, etc., is somewhat better than for a debit card, and they can't clean out my bank account with a credit card.

    So yeah, I would be paying "cash" for it.

    I just have other stuff to buy or pay for too. It is all about priorities. This one I would put up near the top of my firearms purchases - off the top of my head I can list them as:

    Ruger Single Six Hunter stainless in .22LR/WMR
    Ruger takedown 10/22, with modified Hogue stock - or something similar
    I saw a neat integral suppressor for the takedown by Thompson machine - you send them the front of the takedown and they send it back with the integral suppressor, and then you just put it on and take if off just like before
    Marlin stainless 336 in .30-30 with 16" barrel
    Olive drab Tavor 16" (if they ever make one in OD - otherwise black)
    SIG 516 Pistol
    Maybe an ARAK upper in .300 BLK
    T/C pistol and carbine kit

    I also have some mods I want to do to various firearms (action job on a revolver or two) and I would like to get some more optics too.

    I have been thinking about getting a .454 or .460 revolver and have the cylinder cut to take .45 ACP with moon clips.

    Generally I don't but new guns until I sell guns I no longer want or don't use. This is especially true right now because I am putting some significant money into property improvements so I won't touch the money I have set aside for that.

    I sold a rifle a couple of weeks ago, so if I can sell my AR-50 I could buy all of the above in one fell swoop. Once I don't have any firearms that I want to sell, and I am through spending so much money on other things, then I will maybe allocate some of my cash for buying other guns.

    But I don't like to spend a lot on any one category in a short period of time, even though I could. I am putting a third of my income into retirement funds, and this year I spent a quarter of it on the property. So I am a little tight and I may have to chip in some money for a taking care of a family member.

    This wasn't so much about whether I could afford to buy the firearm as it was whether someone knew of real problems with it that I had not heard of.
     
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons I would like to get this firearm is I want to get it before somebody tries to make a law that takes them off the market. Then if I own it, most laws would probably grandfather it, or it could be sold, or lost in a fire or fall in a river or something. Can't do that with an SBR.
     
  15. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It's a paperless SBR.... get it! then you can point your finger at those who paid for a tax stamp and laugh at them lol... just kidding. These AR pistols are sweet, I have a DI Anderson with a 10.5" upper in 5.56 and it's fun to play with.

    Once people find out the benefits when compared to SBRs they go :eek: and want one.
     
  16. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    If ATF revisits the issue with the brace, they could just say the brace is a de facto stock that needs to be removed from all pistols. People would be left with their legally purchased pistols but it wouldn't be in the configuration that enticed you to buy the firearm in the first place.

    If you're getting it to have quasi-SBR fun while you can, I suppose it makes sense. When I was looking into going the SBR route, one of the things that I found was 5.56 performance out of a 10" barrel is disappointing when compared to the same round's performance from a 16" barrel. Along with the drop off in performance, you get increased muzzle flash and sound. If it's just a range toy, it doesn't matter. If you're looking at it to be something more, you'd probably do better getting SIG's MPX (when it hits the market).

    http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/sig-mpx-sig-mpx.aspx

    Here's one with the brace:

    http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/mpx-p-psb.aspx

    Here's another version:

    http://www.sigsauerguns.com/product-highlights/civilian-commercial-sig-mpx-c/

    From my point of view, you might as well get the Tavor instead. You've already stated you want to get a Tavor. The overall length is really short while still getting a full length barrel that can do an adequate job with the 5.56 round. And you don't have to worry about the ATF revising their opinion regarding the brace.
     
  17. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    You can get a Pap M85 and roughly 20/30-30rnd mags
    (in excellent if not new condition)
    For $600 & change and thats shipped to your FFL and transferred too.


    Thicker bulged receiver, chrome lined chamber and barrel and new parts and accessories come out for it all the time. Definitive arms can also install a permanent mag adapter. OR you can use slightly modified galil mags as well as modified
    (for some) circle 10 mags or go with a semi permanent mag adapter like the MSA
    (fitting required)

    I purchased one and 35 mags for it
    (Since they are proprietary)
    As well as a manticore brake and Arm brace.

    Im Getting a Keymod forearm and new grip
    (both optional) as well as a sling plate and Im still under $800.
    And its still just a pistol no SBR nonsense.

    Its a very manageable firearm to begin with even without a muzzle device but the muzzle flash at night is pretty intense.
    The manticore "night brake" keeps you on target pretty well but does NOTHING for muzzle flash.
    The various flash hiders like the "night shroud" work well. Its tames my M92 muzzle flash pretty well.

    Just my .02
     
  18. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    :D
    Lol 2014-07-09%2019.45.18_zpsqinltnpo.png

    2014-07-07%2004.13.25_zps4mf8bua2.jpg
     
    ZA_Survivalist likes this.
  19. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    PAP M85

    I will never again knowingly buy a Century Arms product.

    Only CAI can screw up an AK - and did (the Golani).

    As for the MPX, neither it, nor the PAP M85 are ARs.

    I have other personal defense rifle.

    That is not really why I want the SIG 516 - although it could serve that purpose, I have what I consider to be more reliable/robust and effective rifles than any AR - IMO.

    What I want an AR for is for the interchangeability of the uppers, mostly for hunting, but also for long distance shooting.

    A shorty AK doesn't have either of those capabilities, and neither does the MPX. Plus, I want it in a rifle caliber, not a handgun caliber.
     
  20. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As for the ATF changing their mind on the brace, I don't think that will happen. Sometimes things change, sometimes they decide that some firearm is a "destructive device" like the thing they did with shotguns.

    But I doubt they will with this device, especially with a company as large as SIG behind it.

    That said, I could see Congress getting involved and making a law, but we have seen how easily such laws have their loopholes exploited, and generally they grandfather existing devices in, so the more are bought, and the sooner, the harder it is for them to enact the law, and the harder it is for it to have any real effect.

    I have also been looking at the AR57 - which is sold with a 12" barrel and would be a nice upper to have too.

    Even if the arm brace was outlawed, I would still have a pistol, and I could still convert it to a rifle and back again.

    The reason for getting it as a pistol is to have just that option.

    If SHTF, and there was no longer any law enforcement, I could easily put a rifle buttstock on it and have a true SBR.
     
    biggie24420 likes this.