So, Portland police's entire riot team resigned today.

[FLYINGPICKLE]

hmmm

 

[Mikej]

Come Sept, I think, is when we see just how much of a welfare state we live in. Two years rent free? Let's make it three?

Want to make a friendly bet? Say $5.00? A six-pack?

The Fed will slam interest rates down low enough illegal aliens mowing lawns will try to buy a home.

I guess you don't know what those hard working folks charge to mow lawns these days do you? Not trying to be an AH, really.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

@RedCardinalSeven, thank your for your contribution to this site. You are a rock. Or more precisely a stone against which we sharpen our argument. You're smart, articulate, determined and when you are wrong you are both adamant and persistent. Just about perfect. And you're even mostly polite about it, which is damned difficult when being both wrong and adamant. Never change.

I appreciate your friendly gesture and kind words. Thank you.

As for when I am wrong I like to think that I am not "adamant and persistent" but admit my error and apologize when appropriate as I did with WillametteWill not so long ago.

Of course, like all humans I've ever known, I am subject to the pitfall of being wrong and while not knowing I'm wrong. However, I don't think that is the case in this thread. What I see mostly here are not factual disagreements where someone is right and someone else is wrong. It seems that most of the disagreements here are matters of opinion and values or philosophy not easily susceptible to factual determinations.

It seems like we all agree that Officer Budworth hit (or pushed) Teri Jacobs twice with his baton. Where we seem to disagree is what, if any, level of culpability he bears for that, what context matters and how much, and whether there should be any negative consequences for him. Those don't seem like right or wrong issues as much as agree or disagree issues.

 

[FLYINGPICKLE]

Want to make a friendly bet? Say $5.00? A six-pack?

I guess you don't know what those hard working folks charge to mow lawns these days do you? Not trying to be an AH, really.

hmmmm

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

I don't argue with people at all, I just point out what's different and move on. Oregon has all mail in ballots so its easy to cheat. Idaho has no mail in voter fraud so they get the politicians the voters want. If you can't or don't want too see the difference then I can't help you any more.

Have a great day.

Sure, voting method is a difference that could conceivably matter but that is not the argument you presented before. You then said absolutely nothing about vote by mail. I'm a reader, not a mind reader.

 

[Mikej]

Will the govt continue the bail out everyone come Sept or will they kick millions out of their homes?
Which side are you betting on?

That they'll keep supporting them. Or the land lords?

 

[Camelfilter]

Totally agree, but we can vote with our pocket books. All historical data shows once nice towns turned to crap because the working class moved away.

Come Sept, I think, is when we see just how much of a welfare state we live in. Two years rent free? Let's make it three?

I've said it before that lenders willing to give money to anyone, hyper inflates a market. No doubt come this fall, tent cities all over, full on Mad Max..some bank, somewhere, will give a home loan to two idiots with no credit working at Taco Bell. The Fed will slam interest rates down low enough illegal aliens mowing lawns will try to buy a home.

As a home owner it's about the only thing that works in my favor. Otherwise, you are right...less buyers, prices drop.

The FED rate has been effectively zero since March last year, same as it was following the '08 crash...The Fed kept the rate at zero between 2008 and 2015. The economy was better then (GDP, inflation, unemployment).

The Fed is actually increasing the rate currently as an attempt to hedge inflation.

NOTE: There may be another "plandemic lockdown economic destruction scheme" come fall flu season.


Its not going to go well...In my opinion.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

(My emphasis added above)
To your point, we agree on mitigating factors in the situation (and thank you for posting the good information about the officer from another article). In my experience of filing hundreds of cases with the DA's office, the primary location to review factors like this is with the DA, not a jury.

We agree. However, the DA has now, after getting a grand jury to indict, made the decision to charge.

Related to your Rodney King reference, this is an example where a jury was allowed to look at context, totality of the circumstances and hear all the evidence before determining the officers were innocent.

Actually, my date reference was to the federal conviction. In retrospect, I should have used March 7, 1991, as my reference date. That is date that LAPD Chief Gates--ever the consummate politician--threw his officers under the bus and called for their felony prosecution. I don't think any of the officers in the Rodney King beating should ever have been prosecuted in state or federal court.

LA burned (I was an officer in nearby area at the time and experienced the effects), feds stepped in a threw the 5th amendment out the window for double jeopardy and tried them a second time for the same offense. (I know people in black robes have determined that civil rights violations are considered a different offense, but again, it shows the extra prosecution levels officers are subject to...and of course I agree that officer should / must be held to a higher standard than the public, lived by this my entire career.)

I had just left LE a few years earlier and my National Guard unit was put on standby, but never activated, for riot duty in LA.

113 federal officers have been injured by lasers in Portland. To me, I don't know how this would not be considered assault in the first or second degree. Both felonies. Now, I'm not a lawyer (but I do frequently stay at Holiday Inns, so I have that going for me), here is why I'm not shedding any tears for the "protesters."

Yes, I knew about this last summer. It's a national disgrace that nearly all of the "mostly peaceful" protesters behind the violence and destruction--in Portland and across the country--have been permitted to engage in this criminal behavior without little or no negative consequences while being lauded by so many politicians and media types as engaged in some sort of worthy cause.

Officers did not, "Sign up for this," when antifa, supported by the mayor of the city and given cover by folks who may actually have good intentions but fly like ducks with the rest of the rioters committing felonies and don't disperse have been allowed to burn, loot, murder, assault and permanently injury officers, make Portland a no-go zone, and commit thousands of other felonies with complete immunity for over a year now.

You sign up for the job as it is, not as it should be. My point above is that with the prosecutions of Koon, Powell, Wind, and Brisenio and the LA riots the writing was on the wall. Should it be that way? Absolutely not.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

You deflect from the more complex issue of human breaking points and insert your true but simplistic statement. You refuse to address the central point of my argument, that the politicians have intentionally placed officers in a situation designed to push them past the limits of human endurance.

Your "There's no bad-politicians-made-me-do-it exception." statement ignores the reality of PTSD. You trivialize the mental trauma endured by the officers.

You are mistaken. I am fully aware of and do not trivialize human breaking points, PTSD, and mental trauma I just don't think it gives anyone--least of all a police officer--the right to break the law with impunity. To me, your argument is the same kind of excuse-making that Leftists engage in for the law breakers they like and support.

I'll repeat my opinion here that you don't understand it because you've not endured it.

This is an ad hominem argument. How about you and I agree that neither of us knows what the other has or has not endured in life and leave it at that?

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Worth reading:

RRT Resignation

It makes too much sense, so will 1) be ignored by the ptb and 2) not get a whole lot of air time in the media.

Their grievances all seem legitimate and I don't blame them for resigning. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.

It's interesting that I didn't see any direct or indirect references to the prosecution of Officer Budworth.

 

[CRBMoA]

The crash of '08 was bad paper, ninja loans, interest only over-financing, and that bubble burst and the house of cards and ever increasing land values came tumbling down. The economy corrected the unsustainable inflated property values.
This mess is going to be completely different when it blows up. 1-4 family residence rentals are often owned by private individuals or groups of investors as opposed banks. Their ability to weather a year of no rent receipts but still paying taxes and maintaining property is far different than banks making accounting adjustments to charge off unrealized usury.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Sure, voting method is a difference that could conceivably matter but that is not the argument you presented before. You then said absolutely nothing about vote by mail. I'm a reader, not a mind reader.

Simply pointing out the difference, it was never an argument at all.

 

[WillametteWill]

You sign up for the job as it is, not as it should be. My point above is that with the prosecutions of Koon, Powell, Wind, and Brisenio and the LA riots the writing was on the wall. Should it be that way? Absolutely not.

Thanks for the points/perspective in your reply. I agree with you that when you sign up for an LEO job you must have a pretty open idea about what, "And duties as assigned," may turn out to be. Riots, dealing with lots of death, not being liked or appreciated...it's definitely all part of the job. In my perspective we have just entered a completely different realm at this point, especially in Portland. If someone would have told me five years ago that a mayor of a major city was going to march with the same people who are throwing Molotov's at police and occupied buildings I would have thought them insane. Now it is called Tuesday.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Simply pointing out the difference, it was never an argument at all.

I stand corrected, you did not make an argument. You offered a bare assertion without evidence or argument.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Thanks for the points/perspective in your reply. I agree with you that when you sign up for an LEO job you must have a pretty open idea about what, "And duties as assigned," may turn out to be. Riots, dealing with lots of death, not being liked or appreciated...it's definitely all part of the job. In my perspective we have just entered a completely different realm at this point, especially in Portland. If someone would have told me five years ago that a mayor of a major city was going to march with the same people who are throwing Molotov's at police and occupied buildings I would have thought them insane. Now it is called Tuesday.

You're welcome. I appreciate your perspective also.

We're pretty much on the same page. However, I really look at the Rodney King affair as a major turning point. I remember it well, being surrounded by everyone, or so it seemed, who just knew unquestionably that the police that day were racist, brutal, and criminal. I watched the video multiple times and could never see that.

It was and still is surreal to me. From my perspective, the officers involved used reasonable force to subdue a potentially dangerous, resisting criminal while making a lawful arrest. No one ever mentions that there were two other Black people in King's car that day and not a hair was harmed on either of them.

Back then the politicians from top to bottom piled on the cops, too. If there were any major political figures who stood against this nonsense then please correct me because I don't remember any speaking out.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I stand corrected, you did not make an argument. You offered a bare assertion without evidence or argument.

informed individual would agree with the OPINION and anyone who wanted to share opinions would have asked how the opinion was formed. There is never a reason to argue, its opinions. In a civilized culture you discuss how the opinion got formed then offer why you have a different opinion and how it was formed.

Life ain't about winning an argument on the faceless nameless net. Its should be exchanging opinions in a civil manner so folks can read and think about what's said.

I won't argue, if you insist in an argument its ignore forever. I don't have time to argue with true believers that have no idea where the country ends up if they win. The "I am always right boys" have the country near finished. The fights done here and life is far too short to deal with miserable unhappy people. Of course if you don't fit into any of the profiles above then have a great day.

Sorry guys, too long to read and who cares anyway.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Will the govt continue the bail out everyone come Sept or will they kick millions out of their homes?
Which side are you betting on?

My Dire prediction is that when the day comes, those folks most at risk of loosing their homes/ apartments, whatever, will simply leave, walk away, and that will cause a YUGE vacuum, a sort of housing surplus, plenty of units available, no residents to sign a lease! Mortgages will be somewhat better, those who get forclosed will simply leave the banks holding the bag, and take up apartment living, causing a short surplus followed by a hungry investor group(s) come swooping in to score deals of the century and then re sell for YUGE profit when the market stabilizes again.

 

[CRBMoA]

The investors have been here for a couple of years. Mr Potters are coming out of the woodwork to snatch distressed properties right now.

 

[Longwalkhome]

The investors have been here for a couple of years. Mr Potters are coming out of the woodwork to snatch distressed properties right now.

Odds are the buyers are buying for the CCP.

 

[CRBMoA]

I recognize the local money. It is definitely NOT all local money! But the layers are deep and I cannot say where the real money is coming from.