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So much land.... so little land...

Discussion in 'Outdoor Shooting Areas' started by timbernet, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    With snow levels dropping and places like Wildcat Mountain Road and Memaloose getting covered in snow I started looking at some online maps to find lower elevation outdoor areas in the East Clackamas county area.

    And it seems like the Timber companies own most of the county!

    I was reading threads on off-roading forums about people not having anywhere to ride out here... between the National Forest dragging their feet on OHV areas and the Timber companies owning so much land - riders are going south of Molalla (Scott's Mill area).

    Ditto with shooters - I've found it much easier to find places to shoot out by the Molalla river area than up north in the Sandy/Estacada area.

    I've read bits and pieces about Hillockburn Road out of Colton being National Forest... looks to be around 2000' elevation, so likely not a lot of snow yet...


    I need to order a map from the BLM to help me ID other areas. Most online topographical maps don't ID public land vs private land as well as I would like...


    It just seems like if you want to do any outdoor fun (shooting, off-roading) you have to head east of the Cascades.... :(
     
  2. numbnutz

    numbnutz molalla Active Member

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    I dont think that you're going to be able to get hillockburn much longer as the snow level is dropping quite a bit,and yes you are correct when you say it is national forest.

    This time of year you might have a hard time finding any place to shoot around molalla because of the snow also. Right now its probably fine but in the next month or so it will get kind of difficult to get around up there(scotts mills,sawtell,dickey prarie). I personally have not been up in the snow yet this year,but have heard there is quite a bit of snow already.

    Hope this helps. Anytime you come out let me know and I'll show ya around up there. :thumbup:
     
  3. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    Everything that isn't forest service or longview fiber land, is privately owned here. And longview fiber owns a lot of land around here. I would love to find a new area also. Memaloose is going to be snowed in very soon. There is always the old salmon river rock quarry (miller road) by the RV village by brightwood, but it is a walk in.
     
  4. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    have you checked on the other side of the Columbia?

    There are spots above Vancouver.............Larch Mountain? Stevenson, WA?
     
  5. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    Quit trying to convince people to come over to washifornia.

    JK,

    Maybe one day you will show me some areas up there to shoot.
     
  6. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    Who owns the old salmon river rock quarry? Looking at it on Google Earth, doesn't look like TOOOOO bad of a hike.
     
  7. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    I am a German-American-Oregonian, but I happen to live in WA. Nothing will change that.

    Is that politically correct?:laugh::laugh:

    I'll show ya some spots in N. Portland (Vancouver) to go shootin'
     
  8. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    There are some spots near Estacata (not Memeloose)
    Maybe some members can chime in.............
     
  9. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    There is definitely others. But most of them get snowed out in early Dec. also.

    As for miller road, it isn't a bad hike. there are several areas to go shooting there. I am pretty sure it is state owned. There is a gate at the top that keeps you from driving in. If you have a 4x4 you can still get in, but i wouldn't recommend that.
     
  10. kerbyj

    kerbyj Southern Oregon Member

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    Well, you don't need a map from BLM. Check out GeoCommunicator which is BLM's online mapping system that we miners use to research mining claims.

    http://www.geocommunicator.gov/blmMap/Map.jsp?MAP=MC

    Once it loads up, click "Surface Management Agency" on the right side and it will show you EXACTLY where the private land is and exactly where public land is located. (You can turn all the other filters off so it loads faster).

    Then just zoom in to your area and pan around until you find a good looking spot. (You can check elevations by switching the view to topo or their plug-in to Google Earth).

    From what I'm seeing, most of Eastern Clackamas County is actually public land. BLM managed lands are brown, USFS managed lands are green and no matter what ANYONE tells you, you have the RIGHT to utilize those lands for any recreational purpose that is not specifically illegal. The word "managed" in regards to BLM/USFS here is the key point. These agencies don't possess a title to these lands and they don't own them; they belong to the general public (legally meaning any U.S. citizen or anyone who has expressed their intention to become one). For more info about your rights to use public land, visit: www.grantedright.com

    Most people don't realize it, but your access and right of way to the public lands in this country originated through a very early law pertaining to mining. This was House Resolution 365 (commonly reffered to as the "Chaffee Law") which was signed into law in July of 1866. Though this bill was aimed mainly at mining, it was a very radical piece of legislation that essentially set the foundation for our property rights here on the West Coast. Prior to Jerome Chaffee's bill, we had NO rights to access public land in this country, including the navigable rivers and beaches. The key point here is that what is contained in HR 365 were granted by the United States government to the people as RIGHTS with constitutional protections. Later on, the Chaffee Law was merged with the 1870 Placer Mining Act and the contents of both were reaffirmed in the General Mining Act of 1872. (Remember that the next time you see someone spouting off about how the Mining Act of 1872 is "outdated" and needs to overturned. Even if you're not a miner, your rights are going to be affected and what they are really calling for is the eradication of your right to access public land. A lot is at stake whenever that act is being attacked and YOUR RIGHTS are being threatened). Once again, I encourage people to learn their rights by visiting: www.grantedright.com


    You may very well see timber companies who have operations on public lands and be under an impression that their leases restrict you from accessing that area, but it's just not true. The same is true of mining claims, which though not technically Public Land, is still within the Public Domain because as miners, though we do own a form of REAL property as part of our claim (the minerals), we don't own the land itself and we can't block public access unless it would reasonably interfere with our activities or that our activities might pose a safety risk.

    Needless to say, you can still access and engage in many activities in these areas, just so long as you are respectful of others properties/operations that are present. If you do encounter a timber operation on public land, just tell the foreman your intentions and ask him how you can best utilize the area without each of your activities interfering with each other. Same goes if you encounter a mining claim (of which I don't see many up there in Clackamas County). Most people who are working out there are reasonable.

    If you are ever blocked from accessing public land without a legitimate reason (ie. landowners who erect gates on public roads, post no trespassing signs on public lands or utilize threats/intimidation to run you off, overbearing government employees, etc.) I would recommend that you call the appropriate managing agency or your county law enforcement ASAP. (But be aware that you can't trespass on private property to access public lands).

    So far as shooting is concerned, as far as I am aware, the only public lands where this is not allowed are National/State/County Parks and National Monuments. Otherwise, anywhere else that's on public land, provided you are within the law and not creating a safety hazard, is open to shooting.

    The actual guidelines pertaining to shooting on public lands are as follows:

    It should not create a public hazard or serve as a direct threat to public safety.
    It should not damage or destroy natural features such as plants, historic features or property.
    It should not create litter; refuse accumulation and abandoned personal property.
    It should not violate existing laws, including:


    36 CFR 261.10

    d. Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:

    In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
    Into or within any cave.



    And finally, when you're done shooting, be sure to clean up after yourself and try to clean up after others who've left a mess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  11. bwells

    bwells Longview Member

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    I've got a map that I bought at the local sporting goods store in town. I think it cost about $15 and only covers the two game management units near my house, but it shows all the sections that are state land, as well as all the logging roads.