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So, M1 Garand goes boom...

OP
WAW44
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Yes, I considered the SLED. I really don’t need it myself as the range I use allows me to load a full 8 round clip. Since my friend was my guest he was restricted to single loading . He claims the malfunction happened when he pulled the trigger, and not when he was closing the bolt on the round, so I’m not sure if SLED would have helped . The armorer should be looking at the rifle tomorrow, so I will have an update of what’s broken. I really appreciate the help offers with stock and such (Ron).
 

Mikej

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Good post. CV-66 is a very accomplished long time competition shooter. When single loading a M1 it is important to
use a SLED (single loading enhancement device) to slow down the bolt.;)
This home made SLED works better than the commercial one. You do not need a tool to remove it. You have to tweek it
a little for it to work in a particular rifle. I have some that work in some rifles but not in others.
Thanks for this ^^ post. And the whole thread for that matter. :s0155: I've learned something here today, for sure. I went to the range a couple weeks ago to shoot the new Garand for the second time. Guess what I forgot? Yep. Clips. I was single loading ammo. :oops:
 
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Very good!

Was it a ruptured case that caused it? Did you find the brass? I'm just curious. I had heard things years back about the K54 ammo.

I once had an Israeli 7.62 round rupture in an FAL, in the worst way. It split clear through the case web, across the head into the primer pocket. Fortunately I wasn't hurt, but it sure woke me up.
 
OP
WAW44
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Yes, failed case is the going theory. When I removed it i saw failure(rupture) around the extractor groove , but no length wise failure. I pulled the bolt back and it extracted fine, but there was clear raptures around half of the circumference.

Very good!

Was it a ruptured case that caused it? Did you find the brass? I'm just curious. I had heard things years back about the K54 ammo.
I once had an Israeli 7.62 round rupture in an FAL, in the worst way. It split clear through the case web, across the head into the primer pocket. Fortunately I wasn't hurt, but it sure woke me up.
 
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Few K54 stamped rounds were mixed in with my other surplus m2 ball. Yes, should have checked better. Other rounds are either lake city or SL , but seems there were few of these. So a surplus round. It used to be sold by cmp, but long long ago. Afterward I searched a bit and found other reports of it failing in the M1. I thought they were Korean made, but seems it’s a British made round . Also, I was not the one shooting when it happened,. My friend was and I only heard it happen and saw the aftermath, so not sure if anything else contributed to this. He was single loading at the time . When it happened, the case did not eject, it was stuck in the chamber. I had to move the bolt handle back manually to eject it. I don't recall it being any more difficult than normally,, but then i was probably little high on adrenaline at the time after seeing this.
First I have ever heard of without being an overload (wrong powder) or high primer where detonated primer before the bolt is locked up into battery (slam fire) Or a commercial heavy bullets with certain powders that build up greater pressure than standard M-1 Garand. There have been a few incidents with ceremonial Garands with the blank firing devices that have had the hotter grenade cartrige get mixed in with blank cartridges. Forcing that hotter pressured cartridge through that small orfice raises quick and tremendous pressure. It ends up looking like the picture, and shatters the stock and the one I saw, blew the heel out of the receiver, and the trigger housing out of the bottom of the stock. The shooter wore glasses, and suffered no injury except minor to his hand. It took CMP and the Army more than a year to replace the rifle. A directive of how to tell the difference between the new blanks that also have the rose petal crimp and the rifle grenade cartridge that has a lesser amount of crimp folds. A tip is never accept any donated blanks and only use those issued by the Army to be used for funerals and Ceremonies. Organizations are issued them free of charge, so foolish not to only use them ONLY and make it a standing practice. A stuck case in the above case pretty well indicates that there wasn't a case separation where the weak part of case body remained in the chamber, and the case head was pulled free. Long shot but perhaps an original 1903 30-06 that was longer than today's and a heavier bullet? I might be able to single load, but it would be too long to be able to feed out of a 8 round clip. Not even sure it would chamber unless a generous lead, and it is longer to once expanded definitely, you would have extraction problems. It's bullets were also much heavier than either the M-1 or M-2. That Case stamp would be a puzzle, and other that the NATO 7.62X51, I know of no 30-06 being produced by the British. Yes to Korean. There has to be a missing factor for that damage to happen!
 
OP
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First I have ever heard of without being an overload (wrong powder) or high primer where detonated primer before the bolt is locked up into battery (slam fire) Or a commercial heavy bullets with certain powders that build up greater pressure than standard M-1 Garand.
CMP forums discussed this particular ammo

 

Mikej

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Yes, failed case is the going theory. When I removed it i saw failure(rapture) around the extractor groove , but no length wise failure. I pulled the bolt back and it extracted fine, but there was clear raptures around half of the circumference.
The rapture is an eschatological concept of certain Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with the resurrected dead believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air".
Rapture - Wikipedia

Just sayin'. Unless in my limited experience with the M1 Garand and it's ammo I just haven't heard the term used, and don't know the meaning in this case.
 
OP
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Exactly how I feel when firing my Mosin 91/30, together with sounds of patriotic socialist music and a thunderous Huuuuraaaahhhh in my ears.

The rapture is an eschatological concept of certain Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with the resurrected dead believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air".
Rapture - Wikipedia

Just sayin'. Unless in my limited experience with the M1 Garand and it's ammo I just haven't heard the term used, and don't know the meaning in this case.
 
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CMP forums discussed this particular ammo

Thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen that thread but have read similar. I wouldn’t shoot that old ammo now on a bet, even in a bolt action.

Cracked case necks are a nuisance, but not really a big deal. Cracks in the body are worrisome and best avoided if at all possible, but not normally destructive. Cracks in the case head, though, can be catastrophic. They’ll release the full chamber pressure into your rifle or face.

In my case, when a case head ruptured in an FAL, I think the orientation of the crack was facing up, towards the outside of the rifle, so there was no serious damage. In your rifle it appears it was oriented in such a way that it all went down inside the stock.

Fortunately M1 stocks are plentiful and fairly inexpensive. I had a ratty old one on one of my M1s, and replaced it with a very nice looking brand new walnut stock, for about $100. I’m always getting comments on how good it looks.
 
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Mikej

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Thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen that thread but have read similar. I wouldn’t shoot that old ammo now on a bet, even in a bolt action.

Cracked case necks are a nuisance, but not really a big deal. Cracks in the body are worrisome and best avoided if at all possible, but not normally destructive. Cracks in the case head, though, can be catastrophic. They’ll release the full chamber pressure into your rifle or face.

In my case, when a case head ruptured in an FAL, I think the orientation of the crack was facing up, towards the outside of the rifle, so there was no serious damage. In your rifle it appears it was oriented in such a way that it all went down inside the stock.

Fortunately M1 stocks are plentiful and fairly inexpensive. I had a ratty old one on one of my M1s, and replaced it with a very nice looking brand new walnut stock, for about $100. I’m always getting comments on how good it looks.
So, myself being new to shooting an M1...My 117 YO Swede Mauser, and 101 YO Smle Enfield both have small vent holes in the receiver that are an opening just behind the case head that, I presume, is to vent gasses if/when a case head separation occurs. It seems like case head separation cane be pretty dangerous in the M1? Why not a vent of some sort on them?

Edit: I realize and understand the differences in a bolt action and gas operated systems.
 
OP
WAW44
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I'm already talking to few folks about a new stock. I like the worn been there and back look, so am considering used USGI stocks as well, but a new CMP stock is surely nice.

My background is Mech E, so I am wondering about the failure mode here myself. Obviously a failure at extractor groove allows gas to escape around the circumference, with a backward force component on the bolt being reduced, or eliminated. The whole receiver assembly cavity (remember, this was while single loading, so no clip and no other rounds present, just empty space) becomes over pressurized and the weakest part fails. That happens to be the stock as you have internal outward force on both sides of the stock. At least that's my theory for now.

In your rifle it appears it was oriented in such a way that it all went down inside the stock.
 
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I think you’re exactly right. A large volume of very high pressure gas escaped into the the insides of your rifle, and it basically popped like a balloon. I know that’s an oversimplification, but something along those lines.

As to why M1s and semi-autos in general have less of a safety margin than bolt-actions, I’m not really sure.
 

Mikej

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As to why M1s and semi-autos in general have less of a safety margin than bolt-actions, I’m not really sure.

Now I can visualize, (because I got the M1 out and looked closely) When the case ruptured at the head the gases start to exit from between the bolt head and chamber. When the rest of the gas in the barrel hits the port and moves the op rod to unlock the bolt the pressure escapes into the open area under the bolt. Rather than being kept forward of the brass. If you pull your trigger group out you'll be able to see exactly where that gas release hit the stock and pushed it out both sides. The fact that a substantial amount of gas escaped into the mag well explains why the ruptured brass did not eject. The op rod and bolt moved partway back and then the recoil spring pushed the bolt and case forward where the bolt locked up again.
 

Ownerus

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It seems to have become internet wisdom that the M1 rifle is a bit fragile and must be treated cautiously, especially when compared to bolt actions. To quote General Julian Hatcher in Hatcher's Notebook, after recounting the overload of the rifle to about 120,000 psi, "The U.S. M1 rifle thus has perhaps the strongest action of any military shoulder rifle in existence at this time".
The assertion that a rapidly closing bolt could slam fire also seems false to me unless there is serious wear on the rifle. The bridge in the receiver would engage the tang on the firing pin and eliminate any forward motion when the bolt is not rotated into lock up.
As to why there's no hole to vent gas as in a Mauser action, where would you put it? The locking lugs of a Mauser are recessed inside the receiver. The lugs on an M1 are already out in the open. No vent hole needed.
This sounds like a cartridge case failure. Venting even a few hundred PSI into the magazine area could shatter the wood stock. Not a flaw in the rifle but rather in the ammunition.
 

Mikej

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OK, then what are the mechanics of the failure in your opinion? How does the stock get split into two?
I think I laid it out correctly, (even if my wording wasn't completely correct?), below. Studying my own M1, what happened to yours made perfect sense. Did/do you have the ruptured case that came from the chamber after you ejected it after the ka-boom? If so a picture would be nice.

Now I can visualize, (because I got the M1 out and looked closely) When the case ruptured at the head the gases start to exit from between the bolt head and chamber. When the rest of the gas in the barrel hits the port and moves the op rod to unlock the bolt the pressure escapes into the open area under the bolt. Rather than being kept forward of the brass. If you pull your trigger group out you'll be able to see exactly where that gas release hit the stock and pushed it out both sides. The fact that a substantial amount of gas escaped into the mag well explains why the ruptured brass did not eject. The op rod and bolt moved partway back and then the recoil spring pushed the bolt and case forward where the bolt locked up again.
 

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