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So I've got this old rifle...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by speeddemon94, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    I've had this thing for years and I am thinking about selling it off, but I just dont know if anyone is interested in the old wildcats anymore. First off I'm in Portland and its in the safe down in Medford, so I'm having a tough time getting pictures, so I'll do my best to describe it.

    It was built in the early 50's by the Juenke brothers out of NV on a Springfield 1903 action. They put a HEAVY barrel on it chambered in .219 ICL Wolverine, and laid it into a really nice beaver tail stock, with a nice high cheek weld. Both the stock and barrel are stamped with date and initials. I talked to one of the brothers via email while I was in Afghanistan, and then again by phone when I got home. At that point one brother had already died, I spoke to Vern, but the last I heard (2011) He was very sick and his wife would no longer even send calls through. They were both WWII vets.

    So, 219 ICL Wolverine is an improved zipper. 30-30 cartridge necked down to .222. I've only shot it once, it puts rounds through the same hole at 100 yards, really amazing. The barrel looks brand new, so I know it has not been shot much, as the old wildcats used to shoot the barrels out.

    So...any interest in a neat old rifle? I'm not asking for offers, just checking interest level, if there is some, I will post a classified. Thanks guys.

    And I'm sorry if I posted it in the wrong place.
     
  2. Simonpie

    Simonpie Portland Active Member

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    Customs and specials are always hard to find a home for. If you don’t find much love here, try Castboolits.Gunloads. The double OO is correct. They are lead bullet focused, but have a lot of old timers that should remember when that wildcat was hot. They also deal in shooting serious antiques, so they’re less afraid of making brass out of some other brass.
     
  3. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    I love wildcats and am very interested! I will send u a pm with my email.
     
  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well one BIG problem is no one lists reloading dies for a cartridge with that name. If its a 219 Zipper with a 45 degree should as the wiki page on ICL suggests you might have to have a set of custom dies made to fit your chamber. And you talking a LOT of money. Just RCBS obscure dies will run $140+ and those they already have reamers for.

    Does your rifle include dies? if so its value would be much higher. Since a rifle with no way to make ammo for its kind of a bummer.
     
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Sounds very cool. Mark makes some great points though.
     
  6. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the Zipper dies are right. it is an oddball. I've got a couple of empty cases and an ammo spec sheet/diagram but that's it. According to Vern, they used to fire form that round, and then load/crimp with the zipper die. After much research, we ended up shooting some zippers, and there was no case stress at all.
     
  7. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    I have a set of RCBS custom dies for this, I picked them up at an estate sale 20 years ago for $5.00.
     
  8. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

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    If I was sitting on some cash right now I would love to make an offer!
    Sounds like a really neat rifle. I enjoy wildcats.


    I do wish you the best of luck.

    In liberty
    Gary
     
  9. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Here it is!

    DSCN6553_zpsb027f641.jpg
     
    Nwcid, orygun, Spitpatch and 9 others like this.
  10. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

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    Ohhhhh....
    I love it!
     
  11. Simonpie

    Simonpie Portland Active Member

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    Is there an obvious reason for the step in the forestock? It looks somewhat flattened for some bench rest work.
     
  12. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    I think probably so...here I'll load up an image of the forend. I dont know enough about Wildcats to know what they were used for. I know that we can thank these guys for some of our popular sporting rounds of today.

    DSCN6555_zpsda72b660.jpg

    DSCN6569_zpsfe4acb59.jpg
     
  13. Simonpie

    Simonpie Portland Active Member

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    Interesting. Eventually benchresters went top a truly flat bottomed fore-end. Whether that is a "transition era" oval, or not, I couldn't tell, but it certainly has focus. Some of it looks a bit out of place, but all is forgiven as it feeds a goal, "2-bullets-1-hole."
     
  14. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it was the 50's Who knows what they were going for...Either way It will see the classifieds tomorrow.
     
    feconn and (deleted member) like this.
  15. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    40's-50's style vamint rifle. Several stock manfactures made that style of stock. Fajen, Bishop being the most common.
    With that style cheek piece and im leaning towards Bishop..

    Hard to tell, Fajen worked for Bishop for years then went out on his own and started Fajen stock company. Both of them usually ink stamped their name on the raw wood under the recoil pad.
     
  16. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    And I never took that off to check.
     
  17. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I will compliment you on your initial description, and your basic research as to time period. Mark W was correct in his concern that the dies need to be somewhere, but if they do not accompany the rifle, that would NOT be a major obstacle for a truly interested buyer.

    It is somewhat obvious that the original owner was much more concerned about hardware than software. (Barrels and actions vs. Wood). He sought a gun that would shoot the dickens, and would be nothing more than presentable to others. He may well have put a hard-earned paycheck into the action and barrel work, and done the stock himself. These experiments were so very prevalent in the post-war years, and this is indeed a Wildcat that was on the forefront of experimentation. Riflemen of today (even those who purchase new guns, especially in any new caliber; i.e. short magnums, etc.) owe so much to these early explorations.

    This gun is a time-capsule. Valuable in its choice of forefront-experimental (and VERY GOOD, I might add) cartridge. Useful in its demonstration of a time gone-by: when GI's from WWII, schooled in arms and ammuntion returned home and found a hobby: some of them took the hobby to extreme and challenged boundaries. We of newer experiments owe so much to these intrepid men. Some of them came to found the very corporations we trust to supply us with guns and ammunition. The youngsters in the field will tragically never know this. It is a story of America that is sadly left untold.

    It's a fine gun. Allow no detriments to its intrinsic value.
     
  18. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is confirmed in agreement with your research that this cartridge came out of the Juenke Bros shop in Sparks, Nevada, operating under the marquis, Saturn Gun Shop. ICL stands for " Improved Cartridge Loading".

    This will indeed be a fine exploration to discover more of American firearm history. It ain't Winchesters and Colt's, but its damned sure just as important!
     
  19. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Hell, it wasn't even me...That's the "royal" I... I was in Afghanistan, my dad took it out and put at least 2 rounds through it.... Otherwise, a safe queen.
     
  20. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Moses Lake, WA Active Member

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    I'm interested. That doesn't mean I know I have the money you will be asking, but interested enough to want to know. ;)

    I'll now do some research to see if a Zipper die can be modified to fit this one.

    Pops