So is anyone going to get the AG's opinion on tranfers?

[Gunguy45]

I have no idea how to go about such a thing, but the AG's office was silent about I-594,

Can we NOW at least get some official ruling on what the damn law means at least according to the top LE person in the state?

Read More

 

[U201491]

Nullify a BAD Anti Constitution Law. Just NULLIFY IT ................................
Follow the citizens of Connecticut lead. .

​

 

[usagi]

I have no idea how to go about such a thing, but the AG's office was silent about I-594

<broken link removed>

you need to talk to your state rep and have them get an opinion from the WA AG.

 

[Dain Bramage]

<broken link removed>

you need to talk to your state rep and have them get an opinion from the WA AG.

In case usagi doesn't make it clear in his entirely correct post, the AG doesn't work for you peons. The AG office will not issue opinions by citizen request. He is basically the attorney for WA state government.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

I have a new question about 594, now.

Let's say that you sold a handgun that you purchased from an FFL to someone ten years ago. For whatever reason, next year the police run the handgun and see that it was sold to you with no record of your having sold it. They charge you with an illegal transfer. Does the state have to prove that you made the transfer after Dec. 4th, 2014? Or, as with the exceptions, are you responsible for proving that you made the transfer ten years ago? Or is it a combination where the state has to prove that you transferred after Dec. 4th and then it shifts to you to prove an exception? I know that some ex post facto laws have been allowed, including in regards to firearms (for example, retroactively prohibiting firearms possession to those who had previous misdemeanor domestic violence convictions). Since there is no explicit exception for firearms transferred prior to the date that the initiative becomes law, does it operate as an ex post facto law in that regard?

It may sound like that is crazy, but the police can't know if a legal transfer was made or not. So wouldn't they charge the offense and let the courts figure it out? And once it's charged, it appears that you can only get off if you meet one of the exceptions and that you have to prove that you qualify for an exception. Maybe I've just been looking at this too much.

 

[buck]

innocent till proven guilty as i remember. so the government will need to prove a law was broken.

 

[usagi]

burden of proof is on the state to prove you did a transfer after 594. would be pretty easy for firearms with a manufacture date post-594. near impossible for anything pre-594, unless they caught you in the act.

my guess is 594 will mostly be not enforced, it will simply be add-on charges after the fact to an existing prosecution.

 

[HuckFin]

Yes I agree, it will be easy to prove, as every transfer and now including private sales that undergo a background check will have a permanent record of the sale in Olympia. So now because of I-594 we have GUN REGISTRATION in the state of Washington.

 

[deen_ad]

< Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

We've had handgun registration, when bought through an FFL in WA for years. Every handgun sale is reported to the Sheriffs office. Do you really think the data is deleted?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Golden Eagle member
WAC member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Ok, actually now I see that the law has to be "knowingly violated" to be a crime, so transfer prior to the initiative going into effect would not be knowing.

Next question, in private sales the firearm must go to the dealer who does the background checks and then the dealer transfers to the buyer "as if...from its inventory." If the firearm is defective and end up harming the buyer, can the dealer now be held responsible in a civil suit? Can the seller allege mishandling by the dealer which caused the defect? How much will the possibly of such suits add to the price of a transfer? How much will the possibility add to the insurance premiums of gun stores?

Also, it can now take up to 10-60 days for the dealer to expire the background checks. While it appears that the seller can remove the firearm from the premises while waiting for the background check, that is still a transaction that the dealer must maintain in their records. Will their be an added cost to maintain records of these private sales and the contact information for the buyer and seller? I haven't worked in a gun store previously, but that seems like information that isn't normally kept on hand.

 

[coyote223]

innocent till proven guilty as i remember. so the government will need to prove a law was broken.

We live in the upside down obamanation now, you're guilty unless you can prove otherwise,,,

 

[Gunguy45]

I have a new question about 594, now.

Let's say that you sold a handgun that you purchased from an FFL to someone ten years ago. For whatever reason, next year the police run the handgun and see that it was sold to you with no record of your having sold it. They charge you with an illegal transfer.

No, laws applying to transfers don't take place until Dec. 2014. Anything before that date is not subject to the law.

Secondly, most agencies have no intention of enforcing this law unless it's a known gang-banger. I've heard it from several people in law enforcement now.

Lastly, it would be a STUPID case to bring. It's on the state to prove you sold it AFTER Dec. 2014 in violation of the law. It's a loser prosecution that likely as not would be dismissed by any judge, even a gun-hating one.

 

[HuckFin]

< Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

We've had handgun registration, when bought through an FFL in WA for years. Every handgun sale is reported to the Sheriffs office. Do you really think the data is deleted?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Golden Eagle member
WAC member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

Yes, I know we have had gun registration when buying through an FFL . My point is now with I-594 all private sales records will now be stored along with the FFL sales records in Olympia. What happens is, first the dealer keeps a copy, the sheriff or chief of police get the second and the third copy goes to the DIRECTOR OF LICENSING in Olympia and is kept there indefinitely and that is what I'm talking about. Before I-594 when buying from an FFL, the record chain was not effective, because the chain can be broken at anytime by a sale between private parties, but now because we have to go through an FFL for private sales. the chain will no longer be broken. There will be a permanent and current record now of each and every gun sale stored in Olympia. Ok, this will be the first time I have tried to reference someone else's post so don't know what's going to happen when I hit post reply.

 

[bnsaibum]

Yes, I know we have had gun registration when buying through an FFL . My point is now with I-594 all private sales records will now be stored along with the FFL sales records in Olympia. What happens is, first the dealer keeps a copy, the sheriff or chief of police get the second and the third copy goes to the DIRECTOR OF LICENSING in Olympia and is kept there indefinitely and that is what I'm talking about. Before I-594 when buying from an FFL, the record chain was not effective, because the chain can be broken at anytime by a sale between private parties, but now because we have to go through an FFL for private sales. the chain will no longer be broken. There will be a permanent and current record now of each and every gun sale stored in Olympia. Ok, this will be the first time I have tried to reference someone else's post so don't know what's going to happen when I hit post reply.

I'm not the first to say it and I won't be the last, but when this registration that only records sales after 594 is in effect fails to curb "gun violence" the next initiative will be for full registration so we can really keep guns out of bad people's hands.

It's for the children.

 

[HuckFin]

From what I understand, the make, model and serial number ( along with your name ) is stored in Olympia, not just the sales record.

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

Secondly, most agencies have no intention of enforcing this law unless it's a known gang-banger. I've heard it from several people in law enforcement now.
& YOU BELIEVE THAT ? ....JUST LIKE THEY ARENT COMING FOR YOUR GUNS HUH?

they say that NOW....... but every cop with a hard on which is most I've dealt with, will threaten you with this unconstitutional law....... and anything else they can throw at you........... they want us all to snap to their attention if not they want you in jail, there is big money it for the state.

 

[FZRider]

I work for the AG...maybe if I ask someone really nice they'll review it and give an opinion. OFFICIAL opinion...not that it's just flippin stupid.

 

[Diamondback]

Condolences, FZ... I do not have high hopes for sanity from "Dumber Than Bob" Ferguson.

 

[FZRider]

Condolences, FZ... I do not have high hopes for sanity from "Dumber Than Bob" Ferguson.

I actually work in the Medicaid Fraud Control Unit and enjoy my job very much. Going after crooked healthcare providers and manufacturers is fun!

 

[usagi]

The AG is rabidly anti-gun. Any opinion is going to be extremely biased, but hopefully that can be used against him in court.