So how 'bout that new 185gr 9mm ammo?

[The Heretic]

Is this going to morph into one of those 45 vs 9mm threads?

I have 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 mag, .40 S&W, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .460 Mag (the last three all in one gun), .44 magnum and so on. They each serve their purpose, and have their pros & cons.

I am a heavy bullet fan from way back, but if a 115 gr. 9mm bullet expands to 0.6"+ and penetrates 14-16", how is the wound from that going to be any different than a 147 gr. 9mm bullet that expands to 0.6"+ and penetrates 14-16" - both doing it reliably?

And please, don't anyone start talking about "hydrostatic shock" (as soon as I hear an "expert" on Youtube or some writer start throwing that term around, I tune them out).

Yes, a heavier projectile of the same diameter is going to have more sectional density, and all else being equal, more sectional density equals more penetration. But "all else" is often not equal - often a lighter bullet at a higher velocity will expand faster, damaging more tissue even if the final expansion of the bullet is the same as another heavier or lighter bullet.

Also, heavier projectiles will often better break bones - those nasty things that real animals have that ballistic gell doesn't.

OTOH - light bullets shoot faster and flatter.

Personally, if I want a 185 gr. bullet at 960 fps, I will shoot a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP. My bet is this ammo with the fancy cases and all that R&D is going to be expensive - probably 2-3 times as much as off the shelf conventional ammo.

So I will wait and see how these things work.

 

[nammac]

I'll do it...

If I'm gonna carry 185 gr self defense ammo, it may as well be in caliber .45 ACP...

Cause shooting someone twice is just silly...

 

[No_Regerts]

Actually I think it has more potential too turn into a Keith vs O'Conner thread.

No pistol ammo really makes it to O'Connor.

I have 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 mag, .40 S&W, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .460 Mag (the last three all in one gun), .44 magnum and so on. They each serve their purpose, and have their pros & cons.

I am a heavy bullet fan from way back, but if a 115 gr. 9mm bullet expands to 0.6"+ and penetrates 14-16", how is the wound from that going to be any different than a 147 gr. 9mm bullet that expands to 0.6"+ and penetrates 14-16" - both doing it reliably?

And please, don't anyone start talking about "hydrostatic shock" (as soon as I hear an "expert" on Youtube or some writer start throwing that term around, I tune them out).

Yes, a heavier projectile of the same diameter is going to have more sectional density, and all else being equal, more sectional density equals more penetration. But "all else" is often not equal - often a lighter bullet at a higher velocity will expand faster, damaging more tissue even if the final expansion of the bullet is the same as another heavier or lighter bullet.

Also, heavier projectiles will often better break bones - those nasty things that real animals have that ballistic gell doesn't.

OTOH - light bullets shoot faster and flatter.

Personally, if I want a 185 gr. bullet at 960 fps, I will shoot a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP. My bet is this ammo with the fancy cases and all that R&D is going to be expensive - probably 2-3 times as much as off the shelf conventional ammo.

So I will wait and see how these things work.

This. Pistol ammo is pistol ammo. Barriers and bones are my biggest concerns because the rest is gonna suck regardless.

 

[The Heretic]

I'll do it...

If I'm gonna carry 185 gr self defense ammo, it may as well be in caliber .45 ACP...

Cause shooting someone twice is just silly...

P227 - .45 ACP - 14 rounds

P226 - 9mm - 15 rounds

P226 - .40 S&W - 12 rounds

Shoot what you brought with you.

 

[edzz]

But... they said the spokesman has a PHD and I have to believe that's true, it certainly was being piled high and deep. Wouldn't surprise me if he has an BS and a MS also.

 

[Reacher120]

Click it!

325 gr .40? Whoa!

 

[spookshack]

In the famous words of @Certaindeaf...

Didn't click. But a crack whore told me 185g tastes good when eaten one at a time.


Not really.

 

[Flymph]

That's just crazy talk!

 

[po18guy]

Hi-cap (regardless of caliber) comes from the modern era of draw, point, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop, reload, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. Pray.

.44 and .45 Revolvers and .45 ACP come from the classic era of draw, aim, BOOM BOOM BOOM. Relax.

 

[Flymph]

Hi-cap (regardless of caliber) comes from the modern era of draw, point, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop, reload, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. Pray.

.44 and .45 Revolvers and .45 ACP come from the classic era of draw, aim, BOOM BOOM BOOM. Relax.

Except it's easier to point shoot a 1911 accurately than anything else I know...
Also! As if the standard issue sights were made for aiming! Good thing that gun pretty much knows where it should shoot.

 

[po18guy]

IME, the BHP is just as good, if not slightly better in that regard. So, to bridge the gap, I shoot .41 AE in my BHP clone.

 

[WoodsPlinker]

Well, when you increase the size at least in my 9mm reloads if my aging brain remembers correctly the amount of powder goes down which I always thought was weird and maybe someone more knowledgeable could excuse my run on sentence and explain it to me.

So I've always gone for a smaller faster bullet in 9 to help with expansion. But not so small that I have feed issues....

For 45 I go 230grain because John Moses mother trucking browning.

Nuff said.

 

[Flymph]

IME, the BHP is just as good, if not slightly better in that regard. So, to bridge the gap, I shoot .41 AE in my BHP clone.

Yeah, but you can actually aim with the sights on a Browning High Power... But we're getting way off topic! LoL

 

[Mygrainman]

Or you could watch the video where there address that concern, instead of only reading the video title and making assumptions?

True that.... BUT

@Certaindeaf never clicks on anybody else's links..(or so he claims )
So... it's only fair that people "no clicky" his

 

[Alexx1401]

Except it's easier to point shoot a 1911 accurately than anything else I know...
Also! As if the standard issue sights were made for aiming! Good thing that gun pretty much knows where it should shoot.

LOL, yep I had a 1911 made in 1918 for a LONG time. Loved the pistol but the sights were a joke even when my eyes were young. Finally since it had little collector value at the time I had new sights put on. Damn what a difference it made. Used to often, and still do now rarely, have that argument with some who swear sights are not needed. That you should be able to just hit what you shoot at when at defensive distance. While I have known a couple people who could do this it was rare. I know I can't. I lost track of the ones who told me they could until you took them shooting. Set up at 30 ft or so and let them try only to find out they often could not even hit the paper regularly. Often I think it was a case of too much TV. Shooter thinking it really did work like they kept showing there.

 

[Flymph]

LOL, yep I had a 1911 made in 1918 for a LONG time. Loved the pistol but the sights were a joke even when my eyes were young. Finally since it had little collector value at the time I had new sights put on. Damn what a difference it made. Used to often, and still do now rarely, have that argument with some who swear sights are not needed. That you should be able to just hit what you shoot at when at defensive distance. While I have known a couple people who could do this it was rare. I know I can't. I lost track of the ones who told me they could until you took them shooting. Set up at 30 ft or so and let them try only to find out they often could not even hit the paper regularly. Often I think it was a case of too much TV. Shooter thinking it really did work like they kept showing there.

You'll never really get tight groups point shooting, it's more of a "center mass" sort of way, unless you're like Jerry...
You're right tho, the standard issue sights are a joke. Easier just to aim like with a shot gun using the slide as a reference.
Although I bet you regret that mod now, if ya still have it.

 

[Alexx1401]

You'll never really get tight groups point shooting, it's more of a "center mass" sort of way, unless you're like Jerry...
You're right tho, the standard issue sights are a joke. Easier just to aim like with a shot gun using the slide as a reference.
Although I bet you regret that mod now, if ya still have it.

I have seen Jerry shoot and he is one of those who make it look like magic. There was an old guy used to travel and show for S&W too like that. Can't think of his name off top but he was amazing to watch. Had a shooting buddy for a time who was almost that good. He could just draw, fire, and drill stuff at close range. He was just a natural as it was something he learned as a kid. To him it was hard to understand why others could not, it just came natural to him. I tried for many years and never could do it well enough to want to use it unless no other choice. Even when my eye's were good I still had to have a glance at the front sight to be what I would call good enough.
Finally sold that old 1911 but it had by then had multiple parts replaced and been re finished. Now days I am sure someone would pay way too much for it just because the slide and frame were original. It was the only gun I have ever had I shot so much parts literally started to break while shooting. Of course by the time I got my hands on it the poor beast was beat to hell and back. I even carried it for years but had to stop last time something broke when firing it. Could not have that happen when I needed it. Do miss it. It was nice to have a gun older than my parents

 

[etrain16]

I DID click, and got this little nugget of info:

"We ran it through a Hi-Point and it ran just fine"

That's all I need to know. I'll take 1,000 rounds.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I DID click, and got this little nugget of info:

"We ran it through a Hi-Point and it ran just fine"

That's all I need to know. I'll take 1,000 rounds.

The difficult thing would be getting them to feed through CZ's and the like with short throats.. but they did apparently with numerous bullet profile iterations.
I've been shooting heavy swc's out of 9mm for decades and it can be tricky.. they do shoot soft though.

 

[RVTECH]

Unless the bullets are available as components for reloading I'll never even see any of it.