Snagging or setting the hook

[salmonriverjohn]

Are you objecting to the terminology? IMO snaggers probably don't use the terms flossing or bumping. It's really just a shortcut for others to describe this illegal method of catch. "attempting to foul hook" = 5 syllables, flossing/bumping = two, and is really more descriptive to those that have never come across these techniques in particular. "attempting to foul hook" could mean anything.

Nope, no objection to either.
2-4-6 or eight syllables, let's just cut it down to the one that's the most discriptive and only has two syllables so there's no disagreement, poaching,, there it is and there's nothing warm and fuzzy about it either.

 

[bbbass]

Nope, no objection to either.
2-4-6 or eight syllables, let's just cut it down to the one that's the most discriptive and only has two syllables so there's no disagreement, poaching,, there it is and there's nothing warm and fuzzy about it either.

My teeth get fuzzy from time to time. My wife too. Come to think of it as I get older most things are fuzzy.

Anyway, I disagree about what's most descriptive... "poaching" is only a general category. "Flossing or line bumping" describes exactly what is being done wrong. Doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to me.

There's disagreement that these methods are poaching? Or is it disagreement about the OP poaching?
To be clear, I'm NOT disagreeing that these techniques are illegal or even that they should be fashionable. Where I am, Grande Ronde, Minam, and Wallowa rivers, they are not recommended in fishing stores, etc, nor talked about in glowing terms among sportsmen. Rather only to specify what shouldn't be done and to condemn those that do.

Where I have witnessed "flossing and line bumping" done, it has always been by fly fishermen. On the Chectco in a deep tidewater pool that holds salmon before there is enough flow for them to travel upriver. And on the Wallowa for steelhead. . I have witnessed various types of "poaching". So, is everyone that fly fishes with a long leader and a corky a poacher? Well, maybe. I'm sensitive enough to illegal methods that I wouldn't want to use my 9weight flyrod for that. Maybe someone can tell us what is an appropriate length of leader and what type of lure is ok to fly fish for anadromous species?

And yes, it is hard to teach salmon and steelhead anglers what constitutes a bite when drift fishing. I have had obvious takes from salmon, and double tugs from steelhead, but more often it is much more subtle than that. The steelhead magicians that I know are "line watchers" not ones that are feeling the bumping along of the lead. Too many times I have felt the lead stop bumping and it's just hung up on a rock. Reason I switched to hot shots for steelhead. Backbouncing from a boat for salmon has always been the most productive for me and there is no question of "poaching" with either method.

 

[Ura-Ki]

In no way will I state that I am an "Expert" in the arts of Drift or Fly fishing, BUT, I have learned over a lifetime what to do and what is Legal, and what not to do and what is Not Legal! For Drift fishing, I keep my leaders no longer then 36 inches, and I use sliding slinky sinkers and a corkey just big enough to float a hook! Many times the Bite is very subtle, and it takes experience and sensitive feel to tell if I am getting bit or not, other times the Bite is so violent I have almost had the rod yanked out of my hand's! Point being, there are times when a bite feels more like a line bump and knowing how to tell the difference is key. For Fly fishing, I use Spey Rods ( two handed fly rods) and have developed my one technique's for Salmon and Steel Head that involves hybrid Flies ( that I came up with my self) and a drifting set up very much like a normal Drift Rig! This is when I get accused of "Bating" by others that have no idea what it is I am doing! I have found that keeping my leader short, I have better feel, better control, and fighting ability, and I loose way less gear, Thus Less fowling of the river for others! I think we need to move past the semantics of poaching and the different descriptions of such and focus on what can be done so no one else gets caught up in this unfortunate mess! If any one wishes, I can share things I have learned, and set ups that I have found to be most effective, and Legal for use almost every where! Again, I am No expert, But I put far more fish in the cooler then many!

 

[Caveman Jim]

In no way will I state that I am an "Expert" in the arts of Drift or Fly fishing, BUT, I have learned over a lifetime what to do and what is Legal, and what not to do and what is Not Legal! For Drift fishing, I keep my leaders no longer then 36 inches, and I use sliding slinky sinkers and a corkey just big enough to float a hook! Many times the Bite is very subtle, and it takes experience and sensitive feel to tell if I am getting bit or not, other times the Bite is so violent I have almost had the rod yanked out of my hand's! Point being, there are times when a bite feels more like a line bump and knowing how to tell the difference is key. For Fly fishing, I use Spey Rods ( two handed fly rods) and have developed my one technique's for Salmon and Steel Head that involves hybrid Flies ( that I came up with my self) and a drifting set up very much like a normal Drift Rig! This is when I get accused of "Bating" by others that have no idea what it is I am doing! I have found that keeping my leader short, I have better feel, better control, and fighting ability, and I loose way less gear, Thus Less fowling of the river for others! I think we need to move past the semantics of poaching and the different descriptions of such and focus on what can be done so no one else gets caught up in this unfortunate mess! If any one wishes, I can share things I have learned, and set ups that I have found to be most effective, and Legal for use almost every where! Again, I am No expert, But I put far more fish in the cooler then many!

BINGO!!!! We have a winner!!!! If you don't know how to fish ask the guy fishing away from the crowds at one hole...

Case in point, the first time I ever stepped foot into the Skokomish river during the fall run of Kings, I was warned to not faint when I saw the crowds or the methods being used... Holy Crap, I just about did faint!!!! I waded by this hole that was 50 maybe 60' long there were 68 people fishing that it, elbow to elbow!!! And everyone of them was SNAGGING!!!! But oh they were synchronize casting like it was no ones business and when one would sink a hook in the bubblegum, fin or back of a fish, you could hear em yellin, "COMIN UP" or COMIN DOWN"!!!!
I was sick to my stomach. While on my way off the river I saw this kid (around 8-10 years old) draggin in a fish to the bank by its tail whoopin & a hollerin like he had really accomplished somethin special. I told the kid that if he wanted to learn the right way to fish that I'd surely be happy to teach him.... SMH My method used that day was a bobber n eggs and I might add that I was gettin some mighty peculiar looks....

 

[2A2Dend]

A$$hole to elbow, I don't go. I'd just as well hit the open water in the boat. Elsewhere

 

[Slobray]

If any one wishes, I can share things I have learned, and set ups that I have found to be most effective, and Legal for use almost every where! Again, I am No expert, But I put far more fish in the cooler then many!

I'm all ears............


Ray

 

[jbett98]

Look at the thickness of those pool cues they call rods.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is why I only eat clubbed baby seals.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

My teeth get fuzzy from time to time. My wife too. Come to think of it as I get older most things are fuzzy.

Anyway, I disagree about what's most descriptive... "poaching" is only a general category. "Flossing or line bumping" describes exactly what is being done wrong. Doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to me.

There's disagreement that these methods are poaching? Or is it disagreement about the OP poaching?
To be clear, I'm NOT disagreeing that these techniques are illegal or even that they should be fashionable. Where I am, Grande Ronde, Minam, and Wallowa rivers, they are not recommended in fishing stores, etc, nor talked about in glowing terms among sportsmen. Rather only to specify what shouldn't be done and to condemn those that do.

Where I have witnessed "flossing and line bumping" done, it has always been by fly fishermen. On the Chectco in a deep tidewater pool that holds salmon before there is enough flow for them to travel upriver. And on the Wallowa for steelhead. . I have witnessed various types of "poaching". So, is everyone that fly fishes with a long leader and a corky a poacher? Well, maybe. I'm sensitive enough to illegal methods that I wouldn't want to use my 9weight flyrod for that. Maybe someone can tell us what is an appropriate length of leader and what type of lure is ok to fly fish for anadromous species?

And yes, it is hard to teach salmon and steelhead anglers what constitutes a bite when drift fishing. I have had obvious takes from salmon, and double tugs from steelhead, but more often it is much more subtle than that. The steelhead magicians that I know are "line watchers" not ones that are feeling the bumping along of the lead. Too many times I have felt the lead stop bumping and it's just hung up on a rock. Reason I switched to hot shots for steelhead. Backbouncing from a boat for salmon has always been the most productive for me and there is no question of "poaching" with either method.

Just to make myself perfectly clear, just so there's absolutely no disagreement, ALL the above are poaching, you may be preaching to the choir here.
I hate and hold in the highest regard all forms of snagging and consider all that do to be poachers, clear enough?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Ah..............Combat Fishing!!! I have seen that so many times, cant even swing a rod with out hitting two guys next to each other on ether side, No wonder we get closures every where!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Just to make myself perfectly clear, just so there's absolutely no disagreement, ALL the above are poaching, you may be preaching to the choir here.
I hate and hold in the highest regard all forms of snagging and consider all that do to be poachers, clear enough?

Where the white wimmen at!?

 

[Certaindeaf]

cutnpaste john style..

Just to make myself perfectly clear, just so there's absolutely no disagreement, ALL the above are holier than thou preaching.. you may be poaching to the choir here.
I hate and hold in the highest regard all forms of proselytizing and consider all that do to be poachers of men, clear enough?
wtf over stfu

 

[mrblond]

Where the white wimmen at!?

 

[mrblond]

I remember back in the day when fishing the Metolious, there would be people tying a cotton ball to a hook and calling it a fly and nailing every trout that would eat the bread the other idiots would toss into the river.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is why scrotal bot flies are all the rage. Cotton is just racist.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Yesam Boss, stfu here boss.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yesam Boss, stfu here boss.

i fist will not save you.

 

[284guy]

Yep, you were attempting to snag. It might be how you've always done it, but its not fishing, its snagging. You will be convicted, and you will have deserved it. My .02

 

[coastal steelheader]

Also called "flossing" when the long leader passes thru the mouth of a salmon breathing. Especially when casting into a pool of kegged up salmon. I witnessed a lot of that on the Checto.

When I drift fished corkies with lead, I never used a leader longer than 36". Lot's of new anti-snagging regs in place on various rivers limiting techniques to bobber fishing with shorter leaders. Better check the regs before we go out!

Exactly. You can tell the flossers from the guys actually fishing by the six foot leader aka "The Humptulips Leader" and how many times they are reefing back on every cast. It's amazing how many of these guys seem to come from Pugetropolis, appear to have money (judging by their custom waders and pricey GLoomis rods) and many are foreign - all come to Humptulips to bubblegum hook a fish. Stupid, just stupid.

We have our local idiots too, but they all tend to be traditional snaggers - five foot ocean rod, 80lb test line, and nine or ten treble hooks. Just park next to that beat up 80s Toyota 4x4 that is parked at the Camp Bethel Hole - follow the trail of Natty Ice cans to the fishin hole- you can watch them in action just before dark.

Nothing wrong with corky and yarn though, if fished presented correctly they are lethal salmon and will inhale them.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I remember the days before Corkies and all we had were Okie Drifters, lures and bait. Caught my biggest steelhead(16lbs)out of the Salmon River near the west Van Duzer Corridor sign on HW18 on of all things a green colored Gadabout Gaddis(anyone remember him)bass spoon. At the Airport Hole on the Nestuca everyone used at least a 6-7 ft leader bobber fishing with bait with the GW sitting right there and nobody getting ticketed. There was a lot of snagging on the Sandy and Clackamas Rivers in those days. Everyone knew the spots and if a fisherman like me we avoided them because of all the nasty people that congregated at them, talk about trailer trash. To get back to the OP the technique of long leaders in fairly fast water was an accepted one and raised no eyebrows in the day. The ones that stood out were the short leader and heavy weight people. they were the snaggers. Nobody ever gave a second thought to jerking your pole during a drift. Of course all my fishing experience ended in 1986 after catching my last Willamette River salmon 5 days before the birth of my first child.