Smoothbore shotgun adapters 9mm or 38spl plus cheap 410 slug ideas.

arakboss · Sep 30, 2020

I am going to be purchasing my first break action shotgun soon (filling out 4473 Sunday), in 410ga.

I am planning on purchasing a smooth bore adapter for it from ebay so I can plink with either 9mm or 38spl rounds. For those who have used a smooth bore adapter in either of those calibers what was the accuracy like. How far away could you consistently get pie plate hits?

Also any ideas on cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410 shells?

gunnut38 · Sep 30, 2020

I own some in many calibers. If they are smooth bore expect keyholeing at any distance. Still good enough for tin cans at fifteen to twenty feet. Rifled ones are different story . Expect handgun like accuracy, two -four inch groups at twenty five Yards. Ether way not bad depending on your intended purpose.

whitney · Sep 30, 2020

arakboss said:
I am going to be purchasing my first break action shotgun soon (filling out 4473 Sunday), in 410ga.

I am planning on purchasing a smooth bore adapter for it from ebay so I can plink with either 9mm or 38spl rounds. For those who have used a smooth bore adapter in either of those calibers what was the accuracy like. How far away could you consistently get pie plate hits?

Also any ideas on cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410 shells?

Regarding cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410; you can re-purpose .303 British brass and create a straight wall cartridge. You need to make a mandrel to expand the brass and straighten it out, I have to face off about 0.005" off the head stamp to get my gun to lock up. Reload like a rifle cartridge, wrap your slug with Mylar to reduce leading. You can also load the same cartridge with shot and as long as you keep pressures down the brass will last forever. I don't think slugs are what I would call "accurate" at distances greater than ten yards.

I will have to look around in my log books for the recipes. I don't know if that is cheap but it is certainly less expensive than buying ready made ammo.

~Whitney

arakboss · Sep 30, 2020

whitney said:
Regarding cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410; you can re-purpose .303 British brass and create a straight wall cartridge. You need to make a mandrel to expand the brass and straighten it out, I have to face off about 0.005" off the head stamp to get my gun to lock up. Reload like a rifle cartridge, wrap your slug with Mylar to reduce leading. You can also load the same cartridge with shot and as long as you keep pressures down the brass will last forever. I don't think slugs are what I would call "accurate" at distances greater than ten yards.

I will have to look around in my log books for the recipes. I don't know if that is cheap but it is certainly less expensive than buying ready made ammo.

~Whitney

Thanks, I thought about fire forming some 303 brass since I have some but then I discovered you could use 444 brass and dies so I think will go that route. I can powdercoat any lead projectiles I use. I was thinking about trying some round ball loads.

If I did use 303 brass, how would I resize them?

arakboss · Sep 30, 2020

whitney said:
Regarding cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410; you can re-purpose .303 British brass and create a straight wall cartridge. You need to make a mandrel to expand the brass and straighten it out, I have to face off about 0.005" off the head stamp to get my gun to lock up. Reload like a rifle cartridge, wrap your slug with Mylar to reduce leading. You can also load the same cartridge with shot and as long as you keep pressures down the brass will last forever. I don't think slugs are what I would call "accurate" at distances greater than ten yards.

I will have to look around in my log books for the recipes. I don't know if that is cheap but it is certainly less expensive than buying ready made ammo.

~Whitney

Do you think I could use the 444 Marlin die to resize the 303 brass?

whitney · Oct 2, 2020

I only get here a couple times a week sorry for the delay.

I made a resizing die for my .303 brass that fits my press. You could ease the taper out with a long punch and then fire form it. I like to fire form with cream of wheat cereal and light cardboard disks to create separation between the powder and cereal as well as cap the end of the cartridge. I use a drop or two of fingernail polish on the end, make sure it contact the brass all the way around.

Regarding the use of .444 dies to resize .303 I doubt it would be as successful as the aforementioned method; the case dimensions are quite a bit different where the 444 is .1" larger than the 300. Read that as one hundred thousandths. Since you have the dies it might be worth a try. I would be interested in your results. I uploaded the SAAMI cartridge specs for comparison.

~Whitney

Legion489 · Oct 5, 2020

A couple of comments:

Cut the rim thinner from the front, not the headstamp side because that can shorten the brass around the primer and if the primer is high because the head is too thin and you shut the action, BANG! NOT fun!

Why bother expanding the .303 in a die when you can load up some cream of wheat (as stated) and just do it that way in the chamber? Admittedly what I was doing was not .303 to .410 but .308 to straight (for .400 cal.) and it worked fine. Just curious why that wouldn't work.

The barrel of the .410 caliber (it is a caliber, not gauge) shotgun is .410". If you have a choke, it will be smaller yet. Do not shoot .410" slugs out of the bore or soon you will have a chokeless barrel or a split or shot off choke (seen both, and no not by me).

ACE up in Alaska make chamber adapters that I really like. Not ebay smooth bore cheap, but rifled and excellent quality and accuracy. Get a Backwoodsman mag or do web search to get his address.

arakboss · Oct 5, 2020

Legion489 said:
A couple of comments:

Cut the rim thinner from the front, not the headstamp side because that can shorten the brass around the primer and if the primer is high because the head is too thin and you shut the action, BANG! NOT fun!

Why bother expanding the .303 in a die when you can load up some cream of wheat (as stated) and just do it that way in the chamber? Admittedly what I was doing was not .303 to .410 but .308 to straight (for .400 cal.) and it worked fine. Just curious why that wouldn't work.

The barrel of the .410 caliber (it is a caliber, not gauge) shotgun is .410". If you have a choke, it will be smaller yet. Do not shoot .410" slugs out of the bore or soon you will have a chokeless barrel or a split or shot off choke (seen both, and no not by me).

ACE up in Alaska make chamber adapters that I really like. Not ebay smooth bore cheap, but rifled and excellent quality and accuracy. Get a Backwoodsman mag or do web search to get his address.

I was thinking a sizing die would be necessary to resize fire formed 303 brass between reloadings?

DeanMk · Dec 26, 2020

arakboss said:
I am going to be purchasing my first break action shotgun soon (filling out 4473 Sunday), in 410ga.

I am planning on purchasing a smooth bore adapter for it from ebay so I can plink with either 9mm or 38spl rounds. For those who have used a smooth bore adapter in either of those calibers what was the accuracy like. How far away could you consistently get pie plate hits?

Also any ideas on cheap ways to hand load slugs for 410 shells?

9mm/.38 insert - Chazel Chaszel - Shotgun Adapters, Barrel Liners and more https://chaszel.com (get the longest barrel possible. Will give you the highest performance from your handgun round)
As for inexpensive slug loads, I've heard wheel weights work very well as a source of lead...so if you work in a tire shop, you might be privy to an endless supply of lead to cast the slugs from.

Dean
P.S. just for the record, I'm advising using the old wheel weights you pulled off the wheels when you go to do a flat repair, or replace the tires. NOT saying to pilfer the shop's supply of new wheel weights...wouldn't want you to go to jail or loose your job just because you want to save a few bucks on lead.

arakboss · Dec 26, 2020

DeanMk said:
9mm/.38 insert - Chazel Chaszel - Shotgun Adapters, Barrel Liners and more https://chaszel.com (get the longest barrel possible. Will give you the highest performance from your handgun round)
As for inexpensive slug loads, I've heard wheel weights work very well as a source of lead...so if you work in a tire shop, you might be privy to an endless supply of lead to cast the slugs from.

Dean
P.S. just for the record, I'm advising using the old wheel weights you pulled off the wheels when you go to do a flat repair, or replace the tires. NOT saying to pilfer the shop's supply of new wheel weights...wouldn't want you to go to jail or loose your job just because you want to save a few bucks on lead.

Thank you for that link to Chaszel, I had not heard of them before. I just bought some 410 components from another member so I now have some components to work with. Since I don't have the space or desire to cast my own slugs, I am going to focus on using what's available on store shelves or classifieds (round ball, bullets, etc).

Greenbug · Dec 26, 2020

I fiddled around with 444 marlin brass for use in a single shot 410 for a while. It worked pretty good. I did not bother "resizing" the brass at all between loadings, and it worked excellent. I was using rifle primers, an appropriate charge of shotgun powder, a 410 wad with shot and an over shot card held in place with elmer's glue and a light crimp. Killed a few grouse with those loads and had some fun too! Don't see why you couldn't replace the shot with a 41 cal hand gun bullet, or 000 buckshot, or a home made slug, adjust the powder charge accordingly and have a viable offensive/defensive load for your 410 single shot.

arakboss · Dec 26, 2020

Greenbug said:
I fiddled around with 444 marlin brass for use in a single shot 410 for a while. It worked pretty good. I did not bother "resizing" the brass at all between loadings, and it worked excellent. I was using rifle primers, an appropriate charge of shotgun powder, a 410 wad with shot and an over shot card held in place with elmer's glue and a light crimp. Killed a few grouse with those loads and had some fun too! Don't see why you couldn't replace the shot with a 41 cal hand gun bullet, or 000 buckshot, or a home made slug, adjust the powder charge accordingly and have a viable offensive/defensive load for your 410 single shot.

I am going to play around with the 444 Marlin cases as well. I got a few to try from another member and my particular shotgun (Win Model 37A) doesn't like the rim thickness of the 444 Marlin cases so I am going to have to thin out the rim a bit so they will fully seat in the 410 chamber. A 444 Marlin case should last forever with the low pressures of the 410 loads.

Deavis · Dec 26, 2020

Is there enough room in the base of the .444 to use a primer pocket uniformer and ream it deeper?

Seems easier than trying to thin the brass rim on the other side?

I did this with 32-20 to make 7.62 x 38 Nagant brass.

arakboss · Dec 26, 2020

Deavis said:
Is there enough room in the base of the .444 to use a primer pocket uniformer and ream it deeper?

Seems easier than trying to thin the brass rim on the other side?

I did this with 32-20 to make 7.62 x 38 Nagant brass.

Not sure I understand what you are asking about. The problem i have with the 444 brass is that it doesn't sit completely flush in the chamber of the shotgun. The shotgun will close on the 444 brass but it won't allow the hammer to cock back all the way to lock in to firing position (reliably). The thickness of the 444 rim is about .059 and the 410 shell rim is about .049.

Legion489 · Dec 26, 2020

MCAceak.com /MCA-Ace adapters. He also makes custom adapters. Bought from before, great service and great quality.

Deavis · Dec 26, 2020

arakboss said:
Not sure I understand what you are asking about. The problem i have with the 444 brass is that it doesn't sit completely flush in the chamber of the shotgun. The shotgun will close on the 444 brass but it won't allow the hammer to cock back all the way to lock in to firing position (reliably). The thickness of the 444 rim is about .059 and the 410 shell rim is about .049.

Hit the base of the rim on a belt sander, scrubbing off the nomenclature and taking it down .01.

Then use the primer pocket uniformer to cut the primer pocket .01 deeper so you won't have high primers.

Chucking it up in a tool and trying to take .01 off the top edge of the rim seems like a lot of effort.

DeanMk · Dec 26, 2020

arakboss said:
Thank you for that link to Chaszel, I had not heard of them before. I just bought some 410 components from another member so I now have some components to work with. Since I don't have the space or desire to cast my own slugs, I am going to focus on using what's available on store shelves or classifieds (round ball, bullets, etc).

In that case, go with Brenneke....

...pay special attention, starting at about the 4:30 mark. Notice how the target reacts when shot with their respective rounds.

bearingman · Mar 27, 2021

I just bought a $99 bimart break action 12 ga, that I plan on using a chaszel .357 adapter on. I have had both shoulders replaced, so my 12ga pump will be too much for me. The .38/.357 will be a lot easier on my shoulder than the 12ga. My problem is sights, I want to use a see-all sight that mounts to a rail, so I need to figure a mount. Anyone have an idea ? (gun has 1 7mm vented rib)

Phred · Mar 27, 2021

Bearingman
I have a 20ga. that I mounted a Burris Fast Fire on. To do this I bought a std. section of Picatinny rail which came with the mounting screws. As a machinist, I milled a groove on the underside of the rail that was the size of the vent rib. Then drilled and tapped the holes in the rib to secure the rail. I did this step in a milling machine to control depth, and vertical alignment. While I was at it, I milled two dots for a rear site so tI know most people don't have the equipment to do this, but it can be don by any competent gunsmith with a mill.