Smith and Wesson take on Keltec, MP12 shotty!

[The Heretic]

M&P 12 | Smith & Wesson

Since 1852 we’ve been an industry leading manufacturer of pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shooting accessories. We continue to bring innovative firearms to market that meet the needs of every shooter and deliver on exceptional quality with a brand you’ve learned to trust.

www.smith-wesson.com

 

[titsonritz]

I'd wait for the 2.0 version.

 

[powermad]

 

[American123]

That reload makes me appreciate the mag change on a saiga 12 just that much more.

I'm a big fan of bullpups, but I would want semi-auto and a more streamlined exterior, thing just looks like a KSG step brother.

 

[Flopsweat]

That reload makes me appreciate the mag change on a saiga 12 just that much more.

I'm a big fan of bullpups, but I would want semi-auto and a more streamlined exterior, thing just looks like a KSG step brother.

Have you ever tried one of these?

Kushnapup Series V Bullpup Saiga-12 Semi-auto 12-Gauge Shotgun Stock/Chassis System

By David Crane defrev (at) gmail (dot) com August 10, 2010 Speaking of gas-operated semi-auto shotguns and The Firearm Blog, "Steve" also posted a short piece on the latest evolution of the Kushnapup Series V bullpup Saiga-12 stock system/chassis conversion kit for the Kalashnikov AK-style...

defensereview.com

 

[RVTECH]

It might be interesting to try it out as a jack rabbit jump shooter but I can't see much practicality for it otherwise.

 

[Member 34319]

That reload makes me appreciate the mag change on a saiga 12 just that much more.

I'm a big fan of bullpups, but I would want semi-auto and a more streamlined exterior, thing just looks like a KSG step brother.

I keep eyeballing these because of similar reasons. I do find the simplicity of an internal magazine still desirable however.

 

[The Heretic]

That reload makes me appreciate the mag change on a saiga 12 just that much more.

I'm a big fan of bullpups, but I would want semi-auto and a more streamlined exterior, thing just looks like a KSG step brother.

Already have a compact pump shotty (Shockwave). Would appreciate a semi-auto bullpup more.

 

[WheatNuts]

Does it come with the GRIP ZONE?

 

[Kruel J]

Does it come with the GRIP ZONE?

If it does Springfield is gonna be pizzed.

 

[WheatNuts]

If it does Springfield is gonna be pizzed.

I don't buy guns if they don't tell me where to hold em

 

[Flopsweat]

I don't buy guns if they don't tell me where to hold em

But Kenny Logins told me I have to know where to hold 'em and know where to fold 'em.

 

[nammac]

But Kenny Logins told me I have to know where to hold 'em and know where to fold 'em.

Ummm, that was Kenny Rogers…

 

[American123]

I keep eyeballing these because of similar reasons. I do find the simplicity of an internal magazine still desirable however.

View attachment 1013998

And while I understand that, the 10 round stick mag or the 20 round drum mag, in a semi auto platform leaves me (for the purposes I would use a shotgun like this) finding a pump action with a horrendous reload to be undesirable. If someone wanted to port a shotgun and not have to also port magazines to feed it, but instead just a lot of shells, the internal magazine is the superior choice.

 

[The Heretic]

And while I understand that, the 10 round stick mag or the 20 round drum mag, in a semi auto platform leaves me (for the purposes I would use a shotgun like this) finding a pump action with a horrendous reload to be undesirable. If someone wanted to port a shotgun and not have to also port magazines to feed it, but instead just a lot of shells, the internal magazine is the superior choice.

In my experience, a bullpup with a drum mag, might be really awkward. It depends on how close the drum is to the action; it can make the pistol grip and trigger really hard to reach because the drum extends out so far.

Also, long mags make the bullpup stick up even further when prone - probably not an issue with a shotgun though as you usually would not go prone, but just saying. OTOH, a semi-auto is nicer, and a pump is probably awkward to cycle when prone. Remington did a semi "firearm" after they did the pump IIRC - maybe S&W will too if this bullpup takes off.

 

[American123]

In my experience, a bullpup with a drum mag, might be really awkward. It depends on how close the drum is to the action; it can make the pistol grip and trigger really hard to reach because the drum extends out so far.

Also, long mags make the bullpup stick up even further when prone - probably not an issue with a shotgun though as you usually would not go prone, but just saying. OTOH, a semi-auto is nicer, and a pump is probably awkward to cycle when prone. Remington did a semi "firearm" after they did the pump IIRC - maybe S&W will too if this bullpup takes off.

Indeed, a drum mag and a bullpup don't work that well together. I'm comparing apples and oranges here. And you are correct, going prone with a stick mag requires some adjustment, like holding the shotgun at an angle.

I was thinking about from a design standpoint what I would want to change if I could for a bullpup shotgun. Personally, semi auto is my preference, but beyond that, I think of these high capacity bullpups as having a fast reload with the second internal magazine cylinder, but the actual refilling with shells is less smooth than a regular chamber pump action due to the less accessibility to the magazine port. The Tavor 12 option seems interesting by comparison, but also huge, so slimming that down possibly would make it better. The irony of all this critique is I will likely never own any of them.

 

[Member 34319]

In my experience, a bullpup with a drum mag, might be really awkward. It depends on how close the drum is to the action; it can make the pistol grip and trigger really hard to reach because the drum extends out so far.

Also, long mags make the bullpup stick up even further when prone - probably not an issue with a shotgun though as you usually would not go prone, but just saying. OTOH, a semi-auto is nicer, and a pump is probably awkward to cycle when prone. Remington did a semi "firearm" after they did the pump IIRC - maybe S&W will too if this bullpup takes off.

Everything I've heard online experiences wise is that the grip and drum don't mix well. Ergos aren't in its favor.

 

[The Heretic]

Everything I've heard online experiences wise is that the grip and drum don't mix well. Ergos aren't in its favor.

View attachment 1014240

Yes - I tried it once and it just didn't work.

 

[The Heretic]

Indeed, a drum mag and a bullpup don't work that well together. I'm comparing apples and oranges here. And you are correct, going prone with a stick mag requires some adjustment, like holding the shotgun at an angle.

I was thinking about from a design standpoint what I would want to change if I could for a bullpup shotgun. Personally, semi auto is my preference, but beyond that, I think of these high capacity bullpups as having a fast reload with the second internal magazine cylinder, but the actual refilling with shells is less smooth than a regular chamber pump action due to the less accessibility to the magazine port. The Tavor 12 option seems interesting by comparison, but also huge, so slimming that down possibly would make it better. The irony of all this critique is I will likely never own any of them.

My usage of a tactical shotgun would be to run it until empty and then fall back on a sidearm. I don't see myself getting into a prolonged gunfight with a shotgun with 14-20 round capacity and having to reload.

 

[Member 34319]

My usage of a tactical shotgun would be to run it until empty and then fall back on a sidearm. I don't see myself getting into a prolonged gunfight with a shotgun with 14-20 round capacity and having to reload.

I think that is one of these things main selling points. It's not so much a combat shotgun as it is a Home Defense shotgun. One where you have a large quantity of firepower on deck with not much need to reload. Takes a week to reload it, afterwards, you can shoot for at least an hour!