Small Pistol vs. Small Pistol Magnum vs. Small Rifle primers

[2ndtimer]

Great video! Kind of confirms my suspicions, and absolutely mirrors my personal experience with an accidental "experiment" I conducted a year or so ago when I primed some 9mm cases with S&B small primers that happened to be small rifle instead of small pistol. My old Glock with all original parts failed to fire about half of the rounds, but my much newer hammer CZ P-09 handled them fine.
My only suggestion to Sellier & Belot: Consider different packaging for your pistol vs. rifle primers, having identical boxes for each makes my kind of mistake a lot easier to commit.

 

[oremike]

Ya but, if I use up all my magnum primers on 9mm I won't have them to make my stump puller 357's and those are a lot more fun to shoot. Same thing if I use up my rifle primers on 9mm I'll have to use my 9 on sage rats rather than my CZ 527. IMHO it's false economy to use the "better" primers in the "lessor" caliber.

 

[Stomper]

So who is going to tell the next guy who says you can't use rifle in a pistol to shove it up their glory hole?

Don't you mean..... "flash hole"?

 

[ageingstudent]

My testing over the years with CCI confirms the video. I wonder about other brands. I had mostly CCI because that used to be what was most available then. I haven't checked up on other brands. I still think a reloader should do at least a mini workup and try a few to make sure the load change is negligible. Better to only have to pull down a few than five hundred or a thousand .

 

[quneur]

I wonder if case dimension and powder would effect primer pressure. Like the 22-500 NGH (Not Going to Happen) caliber would put too much back pressure thus affecting the primer?

 

[conditor22]

This will answer more of your questions

Comparison of various SP, SPM and SR primers in the 357 Magnum

Excellent information from a veteran reloader. Read this before you start swapping out primers. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?417830-Comparison-of-various-SP-and-SR-primers-in-the-357-Magnum

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Cerberus Group]

I run large pistol magnum primers on 45 ACP, the velocity difference is negligible and no signs of pressure. Can't tell the difference in the fired cases.

 

[DizzyJ]

A few years back there was an article circulating with pictures from a lab showing the differences in flame/spark let off by the different primers. Can't seem to find it at the moment.

 

[Ironbar]

A few years back there was an article circulating with pictures from a lab showing the differences in flame/spark let off by the different primers. Can't seem to find it at the moment.

If you do then by all means feel free to post it up!

 

[DizzyJ]

If you do then by all means feel free to post it up!

Here's some. Can't remember if they did pistol as well? These are for rifle.

Primer Flash Test Photos

6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma...

www.6mmbr.com

 

[JB2000]

I tried a few CCI #41s in a pistol with a light hammer spring. I got light primer strikes and no ignition. I tried Winchester small rifle primers and they fired just fine. To the eye, the firing pin divot looked just as deep as on a pistol primer.

 

[Quirt Evans]

I tried a few CCI #41s in a pistol with a light hammer spring. I got light primer strikes and no ignition. I tried Winchester small rifle primers and they fired just fine. To the eye, the firing pin divot looked just as deep as on a pistol primer.

The #41s are a Mil-spec primer that's designed for full-auto use, it has a heavy cup to prevent a slam-fire condition with floating firing pins, (like an M16).
Here is a helpful chart;
Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications (sksboards.com)

And here is some more info on primers and pressure;
Primers And Pressure (jamescalhoon.com)

 

[jjfitch]

Here is another document that tells us everything we ever wanted to know about primers! A "Primer" on primers!

Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications

Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications

www.sksboards.com

Just click on the red print "An error has occurred" it will open ok!

Smiles,

 

[NobullSKS]

I'm new to loading and I'm warned to go by the book. This video scares me into thinking that I may never see a LPMP for awhile, long while. They are kind, to put out perspective on topics like this, but by the book is getting drilled in to me for first loads. I still haven't heard a logical reason for only magnum primers (versus LPP, LRP) other than it's in published data. My mind wants to compare other cartridges with same powder (type/weight), same bullet weight, similar pressures, and a cartridge so so so close (size/shape). I've started burning my brain over PSI & CUP conversion formulas, powder design and burn rate tables. So is a LPP & LRP. gonna explode my Beowulf and not .458 socom, .500 SWM, .450 Bush, and all those 45- government rounds? Powder manufacturer's shoot everything every which way out of the Bush, Socom, .500SW..... but Alexander is the only one that tried 4 powders and 1 primer???
Only thing available retail is like 3.60 a rnd.

kinda a vent too. Thx
Maybe I should just ask for more load data on Beowulf, from where though?

 

[JuglansRegia]

From what l have seen, primer performance varies more between manufacturers than between types from the same manufacturer. For example company A's standard primer may be hotter or have way more spark than company B's magnum primer.

 

[Mikej]

From what l have seen, primer performance varies more between manufacturers than between types from the same manufacturer. For example company A's standard primer may be hotter or have way more spark than company B's magnum primer.

.....And those differences, if there, should result in differences in pressures and velocity. Don't you think?

 

[jrd541280]

As I mull this around in my mind, there's another question. We are talking pressure produce by the primer. We don't know if the heat of the flame from the primers are the same? One formula of priming compound may be hotter than another formula, yet produce the same pressure. It's not pressure that ignites powder, it's heat.

actually speer in one of their older manuals has photos of what you are talking about. i'm thinking #7 or #8. sheesh that was a long time ago. i had mom buy that manual for dad for christmas when i was like ten. thanks for the memory
there was quite a noticeable difference in the swirling gasses. only remember it was mag versus standard not which size. i'll look.

 

[wired]

I have used them interchangeably for years.

 

[RedRob]

We've had this discussion a few times with new reloaded. I've been loading for a little over 20yrs a couple of the others have been loading and gunsmithing for 50+ yrs. Great guys to learn from. Using small rifle or small pistol magnums in pistol loads is fine if your not using a striker fire. Some sticker fire will ignite the heavier cups. The 5 M&P's that I have will all ignite them. A hammer gun will ignite them with no problem. Now this is where things change you shouldn't use small pistol and for the most part small pistol magnums in a rifle. The cup on these are to thin and the fire pin can puncture the primer cup. If you have a light spring on your rifle firing pin then it's a trial and error. A punctured primer cup isn't going to blow you up but it's not the best thing for you firing pin and the carbon blow back in to the firing pin and spring area. So the trial if your rifle shoots small mag pistol try the small pistol if it punctures then stick with the mags. Kind of like the trial and area with a pistol load 10-20 rounds of small rifle if you pistol ignites them you have options if not you stuck trying to find small pistol and good luck with that one.
Now all that said I do keep separate ammo storage for anything I load with rifle primers. That way when I get a different gun in if it won't ignite the rifle I don't have a mix that ends up getting wasted.
So for the long write but this is something I have been doing for the last 15+yrs and learned from some that are highly knowledgeable and almost as long as I've walked this planet.

 

[73gitane]

Glad to find this video. At the moment all I have is Winchester magnum small pistol primers and want to build up some non mag cartridges. Not so worried about that now