Small base dies vs regular FL dies?

[Dr Prepper]

So first off i am reloading for semi auto gas guns only at this point.

Just getting into reloading for .308 i recently picked up a set of RCBS small base dies (SB TC) and am a little hesitant to use them for fear of overworking the brass.
I DONT want to develope a load for one die and then have to re develope a load for the next. (Thinking about getting a set of redding FL die set)

Ive only recently bought two SB die sets. One for .308 one for .224V because they were about all i could find. Id like to invest in nice reddings when available (esp for 6.5CM when i get there) ive reloaded 6.5G and .223/556 with regular FL dies without a problem (so far) so im pretty skeptical the SB die is even really needed (maybe ever) but it was fairly cheap for the die set so thinking about keeping them. Im mostly reloading my owm factory or reloaded ammo.

So i guess question one is:
How many of you use range pick up brass and just resize it with a reg FL die and it cycles and chambers fine in your gas guns? I dont plan on using any mil brass or full auto brass etc.

Two:
Should i just go ahead and resize all my brass with the SB die and then when i get my reg FL die just increase the load a little for the extra case cap.? (Not ideal but not totally off the table)

TIA for any help!

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[Member 5605]

Brass gets overworked at the neck/shoulder without annealing. Larger calibers will break at the stress line just up from the base. I haven't seen .223/5.56 snap at that place before the necks crack. I've had many firings out of .308 have case head separation to my surprise but not in the smaller.

Small base are perfect for semi-auto applications.

I didn't use small base on my bolt rifle brass, only for semi-auto. Reason? Just because. I now run all small base. Life expectancy on a $.035 piece of brass doesn't bother me, this isn't Lapua brass.

How many of you use range pick up brass and just resize it with a reg FL die and it cycles and chambers fine in your gas guns? I dont plan on using any mil brass or full auto brass etc

I've never done that, always ran through my small base die.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Brass gets overworked at the neck/shoulder without annealing. Larger calibers will break at the stress line just up from the base. I haven't seen .223/5.56 snap at that place before the necks crack. I've had many firings out of .308 have case head separation to my surprise but not in the smaller.

Small base are perfect for semi-auto applications.

I didn't use small base on my bolt rifle brass, only for semi-auto. Reason? Just because. I now run all small base. Life expectancy on a $.035 piece of brass doesn't bother me, this isn't Lapua brass.


I've never done that, always ran through my small base die.

Has anyone ever done case capacity comparisons to put a number to the differences?

 

[Member 5605]

Has anyone ever done case capacity comparisons to put a number to the differences?

I'm sure somebody has but the .005" diameter reduction isn't much when considering it only happens at the very bottom of the case.


That is the area that would be shrunk by the small base and not the regular FL die.
Volume is miniscule, maybe .1% or less if that of total variance. More variance with shoulder bumping

 

[BigDog67]

I believe your firearm will chew the brass up beyond further use before the SB dies "over work" it. Brass doesn't last near as long in semiautos as it does in a bolt gun. A lot of what I pick up at the range just goes to recycle. After some of the platforms out spit it out, it's not worth anything else.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Man.. Your recycler must LOVE you!

 

[Member 34319]

I have never used a short base for any semi auto loads. 10s of thousands of loads processed and shot. No issues.

 

[BigDog67]

If I don't have something to run it through it goes to him. Even 9mm and 5.56 does now. I have thousands and don't bother processing them any more.

 

[DizzyJ]

I think you'd be fine using those dies as is.

For a bolt action, shouldn't be necessary unless the brass was fired out of a machine gun chamber.

 

[Dr Prepper]

If I don't have something to run it through it goes to him. Even 9mm and 5.56 does now. I have thousands and don't bother processing them any more.

Help the hoarde out. Post it on a pay it forward thread or something. Im sure you could really help someone out. Plus it would "save the enviroment" from having to pay full price to have them smelted and reformed etc.
Just saying. Its gold these days.
Maybe give it to cogs for cleanup funding here in the PNW.

 

[TTSX]

Let me tell you what getting a case stuck in a SB die is like

 

[Lennie]

My experience

SB sizing dies might be needed for resizing, but it all depends on the chambers you are loading for.

SB dies are not always required. In my 7.62 platforms, I've yet to encounter a chamber that requires use of a SB sizing die.

My 223/5.56 platforms, I've some chambers that require a SB die. Hence all of my loading in that caliber is done with a SB sizing die.

I feel SB sizing dies do not over work the brass.

Brass longevity, especially in 223/5.56, can be increased by annealing every 4th to 5th reloading. For some shooters, brass has been historically cheap and they toss the cases after a few reloadings. Other shooters who have sorted out desirable cases for consistent accuracy want to keep those cases in action as long as possible, hence a need to anneal.

It also helps to limit the force when passing the case neck over the expander ball. Simple things like reloading clean cases, use of a carbide expander and/or properly lubing the inside of case necks help. There are many great posts on NWF regarding different methods of lubing inside of case necks using different lubes or graphite powder. I witnessed situations where someone thought they needed to go to SB die, when the issue was case stretch from pulling the case over the expander ball.

 

[osprey]

Lennie nailed it. It is really the dimensions of your chamber that will dictate whether a small base die is required. I have owned many gas guns over the years and have never found the need for a small base resize die. Maybe with a really tight match chamber or if you are only concerned with ultimate reliability a SB die may be a good option. The case capacity difference will be negligible between a regular and SB sizing die.

 

[fstdraw]

I too have loaded thousands of rounds in several calibers. I've never needed or used a SB die. This includes range pick up, steel case and of course my own reloads for several different rifles.

 

[Spitpatch]

No need ever personally experienced for a small base die.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Thanks everyone. I looked at the box of .308 SB dies i have and it looks like they are JUST passed the return date.
Last night i blew a bit of cash at midway since they had Every thing in stock at the same time. Got a redding type S FL die and a couple bushings (.334 & .336") and a forster mic seater die. Even a lee collet neck die for sh¡ts & giggles. (For $25 i figured why not try it once)
With how expensive it is to shoot .308 compared to .223 or 6.5G i figured i might as well buy once cry once. And get the most out of it from the start.
I think i have one last caliber of dies to buy and im DONE! (6.5CM) and thats WAY on the back burner since i dont even have that rig finished yet (im lacking a decent hand gaurd amd really brass and seeds)

I Think next is a nice runout gage like XXI's i just scored a nice tesa/B&S best test lever indicator (.00005") and base for $80

 

[DizzyJ]

Nice indicator.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Let me tell you what getting a case stuck in a SB die is like

Man i had one that started grabbing the other day. Regular size die. It was a redding FL bushing die i went with.
I dont care to have that sinking feeling again. I thought the die and shell were already lubed enough (previously sized) i start bubblegumting myself a bit im on a co ax and not quite sure how to even remove the die and shell holder when they are closed?

Anyway. I tried the .308 collet neck die as well because some if the sized cases only had about .0005"-.001" of neck tension. I think im falling in love with that cheap little lee collet die pretty quickly.
I did have to modify the diameter of the mandrel a bit. Works great when setup right.