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Slipped up in situational awareness today....story time...

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by cpy911, Jul 15, 2014.

  1. cpy911

    cpy911 Newberg Active Member

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    I have a CHL and carry my pocket pistol with me almost always, until today.

    Anyhow, I was at the Tigard Harbor Freight during my lunch break. I had a cart full of tools and goodies and exited the store kind of daydreaming, which was my mistake.

    I got up to my car on the passenger side and started loading stuff in the passenger seat and before I know it, a large white van pulls up less than a few feet away with two men in the front. First thought is, oh crap, I let my situational awareness down, these guys were kind of scraggly looking and definitely startled me.

    Anyhow, the driver starts aggressively trying to sell me on the meat he has in his van. He was very forward and pushy. I was deer in the headlights, and thinking am I being held up? I shook my head and said no thanks and told him no interest and don't want his stuff, not my thing.

    He started being a little belligerent and questioning me and super pushy and even condescending. I finally said, hey leave me alone, go away. His buddy started getting frustrated and they talked amongst themselves and I heard the words, he feels threatened. I wasn't threatened, just annoyed and pissed that I let my guard down. Finally they roll off and he tells me God bless, I am like uh, ok, thanks for treating me like crap and I never asked for the confrontation in the first place.

    Anyhow, I should have seen that big white van coming from a mile away. When it got closer, I should have moved behind my vehicle so it was between me and him. Also, should have dropped the pocket pistol in the shorts today...duh.

    If these guys were really bad guys (and not just jerks) I would have been in bad shape and quick.

    Moral of the story, you need to keep your situational awareness going all the time, even during the day!
     
  2. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I've been approached by some of these on the street meat sellers myself. It always seems shifty to me. I don't know who buys from these folks - obviously someone does or they wouldn't keep doing this. But my guess is probably not an actual threat.

    Good lesson on awareness though. I've been caught off guard more than once and found myself right next to an unsavory character - not a nice feeling. Nothing bad has happened so far, but just think how quickly it could go down if they did start some sh$t - and you're not prepared.

    I've left my house a number of times with my holster on, but my gun not in it. Since I've got a kid in the house, I can't leave my gun out where it's easy to spot - it's locked up, so I have to remember to retrieve it each time I leave - and sometimes I get distracted and forget. I HATE when I do that. I've become so accustomed to having the pistol on me, it just feels wrong to have it missing. Thankfully it's been a while since I've done that, but I sure understand how you felt.
     
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  3. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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  4. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    ah, the old white van guys selling meat. They were not very happy when I tried taking a pic of their license plates as I drove off.
     
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  5. cpy911

    cpy911 Newberg Active Member

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    So, are these guys legitimate? Here are their descriptions: driver was a black male, in his 30's, short curly hair, gold necklace. Other guy was a white male in his late 40's or early 50's, long scraggly hair with scraggly facial hair.
     
  6. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Its some sort of scam. its like the white van selling speakers con, they just moved to meat. I dont know why they always use a white van, perhaps they have a yearly seminar on how to con people. Lots of stories on google if you search for "white van selling"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam

    Never buy goods out of a white van on the street. :)
     
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  7. redmud

    redmud Colombia river Active Member

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    It's only a scam if you buy the meat at roughly the $40 a pound they start at. I got them down to under $5.00 a pound and told them no thank you. The guy just irritated me one to many times trying to out wit me to get me to pay more by adding this or taking that out and changing the price.
     
  8. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Know how to say and do "no thank you" on the fly.. any "salesman"/beggar has no defense/recourse upon such utterance.
    If it comes to actual assault, slam their head into the concrete or shoot them or something.. as required. dood
     
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  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    "Are you registered to vote?".. " No thank you.".
    "No" is the actual operative word..
     
  10. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    I always buy my meat and speakers from guys in white vans. It's a family tradition - dodgy meat strengthens the immune system!
     
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  11. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You are absolutely right, Certain! It's easy and gets you to a more defensible posture quickly! However, its all but impossible to get the wife to move right along with me. She would rather bite a hole in her tounge than be "rude" to someone! She seems to be under the impression that these losers have some sort of inalienable right to address her! I've been pounding my head on that wall for nearly forty five years! :mad:Rant over!
     
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  12. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It is a learned response. I certainly do not have that problem with my wife. She never has been intimidated by dirt bags like these. She was approached by some dirt bag panhandler in Safeway parking lot, and before he got his mouth open she told him in a forceful voice to " Get the f*** away from me right now". He persisted and she drilled him again in a loud voice and said this a**h*** is bothering me. He turned and walked away.

    I have been approached by panhandlers and other individuals and if they do not take my first " Get the f*** away from me" then I just go what I call " old man crazy" and drop f bombs on them, tell them you do not want to f*** with me now, and just generally act crazy. Seems to work. No one has the right to approach you unless you let them. They are sizing you up and you need to be doing the same to them and use your training to stop their process.

    Every criminal s***bag has body language, and behavior patterns has they begin the interview process to determine if they can commit a crime against you. You need to stop it at the first step.

    Now let us address the issue of not having the carry piece on him. I get all the reasons he did not have it. Legitimate and understandable. That being said, you might have needed it and would not have had it. You simply have to develop a behavior pattern in your daily life that puts that weapon on you at all times. I put on a holster with an extra magazine right after my morning shower. That weapon will be on me all day.

    If I sit down to watch TV at night, it sits on my side table with a LED flashlight. My wife puts a .380 in her jeans back pocket the same way. I am never unarmed. I recently began carrying an asp and pepper spray. I wanted a non lethal alternative. I got some training from a family member LEO on use and deployment of both methods. I do not go places where my ability to defend myself is restricted by some lame as+ rule made up by some gun hating liberals. I have been in situations where the presence of my weapon and my training and willingness to use the training and weapon have prevented crimes from happening.

    I have been approached by criminals in my own driveway. I CC outside my home whenever I am outside. I may be a bit more hard core than some on here about this, but after an potential attempted carjacking in my driveway in Nov 2012, a burglar that broke into my shop in broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon last November, and an encounter with an armed robber getting ready to rob a store next to one I work at in loss prevention in April of this year, and then recognizing a set up pattern for an armed robbery and nipping that in the bud last month, I just feel better being able to defend myself.

    I think that being put in the situation of possibly needing the weapon and realizing you did not have it was probably education enough for the young man. Life lessons happen that way.
     
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  13. Soldier_Citizen

    Soldier_Citizen Vancouver, Wa Member

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    Rule #1, carry... Always. I never leave my house without my gun, mags, wallet, phone, keys.... EVER.

    I never allow these kinds of people to talk to me... They ask a question.... Answer is always "NOPE, sorry".

    Can I bum a smoke?

    Nope, sorry

    Can I have a dollar so I can make a phone call?

    Nope, sorry

    Do you have any change?

    Nope, sorry?

    Can I get a ride someplace?

    Nope, sorry

    I don't say it rude, but I say it in a stern standing my ground manner.

    About a year ago I had just got back into Vancouver from Portland, I had just picked up my son from his mom, and him and I made a real quick stop at walmart on mill plain off the 205, to grab some stuff. It was dusk(ish) and there was some tweekers inside the store that seemed to end up in every isle I was in the entire time I was in the store. Ok creepy, but they veered away when I went to checkout, and I quickly forgot about them.

    Walk back out to my truck I hear them talking behind me, idk if they where that dumb or thought I was deaf but they follow me out towards my truck keeping some distance.

    I open my truck and son goes into his car seat immediately, as I turn around to start loading stuff, they walk around the front of my truck, the only thing between me and them is my open door.

    One of them asked if I had a couple bucks to spare, I said no sorry, and the second guy said "no we need your money"(I will never forget his voice or tone as long as I live).

    I, in a very calm tone told them "you need to back the *fbomb* up, you arnt getting any money from me." The one closer to my door tried to push it closed on me, and I slammed it back open and smashed/pinned his arm between my truck and the SUV next to me.

    It got the point across, either that or the fact that I had cleared my holster and was ready to do what was needed to protect the life of myself and my child.

    Called the local smokies, officer came out, told him what happened, he took a report, and as he was leaving he spotted twiddle dee and twiddle dumb breaking into a car.

    Some people are just that dumb. Prior to that I had carried "regularly", but since, I carry "religiously". I don't ever want to have to thing "if I had only had my gun."
     
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  14. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Good reminder. As I have said many times, there will be no memo, email, or courtesy appointment on the day someone tries to rob or kill you.

    It will happen in seconds, without preamble.

    Turn fear into anger and anger into aggression: "when engaged in combat the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion."

    And, have a nice day. Bro. ;)
     
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  15. teflon97239

    teflon97239 Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    Play along for a moment...

    The belligerent butcher is legit. He acquired the meat legally. It's not human flesh. Proper sanitation and refrigeration have been strictly maintained, and it's aged to perfection. He has the required permits to sell food. And he has no ill intent.

    Assuming all of that, did our mobile "merchant of venison" end up in a crummy unlabeled Econoline, badgering people in tool store parking lots (within a mile of Fred Meyer/Safeway/Albertson/Trader Joe's) because of his finely honed entrepeneurial and interpersonal skills?

    Maybe his buddy talked some sense into him about respecting the rightful boundaries of random strangers minding their own business. Or perhaps not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  16. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Tell him your a vegetarian.
     
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  17. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I worked downtown Seattle and Tacoma too much. I'm rude from the get go and it only gets worse.
    Some dont' listen or believe you unless you are yelling and swearing.That's what they were raised on and what they understand.
    Now the guys at Walmart.Your son was young enough for a car seat?
    The gun should have been on them as soon as they asked for money.They sure as heck weren't gunna call the popo.
    If you have children with you that young,don't engage with them but to let them know you will,in fact,shoot them if they don't leave.Hey if the kid is old enough to run away? Maybe not so fast with the gun.
    But car seat age,you should have let them know right away you were armed and calling 911
     
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  18. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Very good point. You have to communicate with these scum in the language and tone they understand. You need to yell at them, drop multiple F bombs on them, and generally act crazier that they are. I work with older adults in self defense and I have to teach them to call them MF'ers, get the **** away from me, **** you a******, leave me the **** alone.......just lay it to them.
     
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  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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  20. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bad idea to have a distracting question ready for the instant you're going to draw and shoot. Calmly inquire,
    "What'd you have for breakfast this morning?"
    or "Have you met JA-HEES-US, my son?"