sks vs 10/22 vs AK vs 1911 which is the best?

[roar9roar]

Yes I do understand. But with the amount of crap that is left after 450 rounds vs an ar 450 or even a single mag, it is absurd. And I in a s**t storm I don't want to have to worry about cleaning my guns. I want it to shoot when I pull the trig. If afgans can clean it with gas, treat it with motor oil and be happy as ****, so can I. AR gas systems are unreliable in the long term. Aks are like vw bugs, not the best but always get you there. Bottom line..ARs don't eat crap for long. AKs eat poo and ask for more.

 

[shoggoth80]

Ha ha ha! I've seen really gunked up AR bolts pictured on AR15.com (from running a ton of Wolf), that were still going. I mean no disrespect to your decisions, yourself, or your reasons. I just enjoy good gun banter. That, and if I make any mistakes, someone more experienced will correct me, and thus my knowledge base expands.

A lot of people bash Wolf, but I have shot plenty of it (and Brown Bear, and Silver Bear) through various European and Comm-Bloc surplus guns... it's always been gobbled up by everything I have ever pulled the trigger on. Used to have stuff in 9x18, and ALL my ammo for that was Wolf and Silver Bear.

Afghans use more than just the AK though. I recall articles showing old school marksmans with Enfields and whatnot. A good gun, is a good gun, is a good gun... I personally don't care where it came from (except Khyber pass, forget that). I respect people's choices in firearms, and understand there will be differences in opinion, based on different criteria and potential situations. And further more, those opinions/criteria are generally valid and well backed in most cases.

I make it a habit to clean all my guns after they have been fired. I know they could stand to go longer in between, but it's just a matter of principle with me. In a real "Oh snap" scenario, cleaning would take a back seat to getting out safe. Hopefully such a scenario is never an actuality.

Did you check out the vids I posted roar9roar? It at least lends some credibility to the AR platform, and performing when nasty. I used to think the AR was junk too. Ha ha ha! And no, I am not trying to change anyone's mind/opinion about what platform they prefer. I say use what you are a)best with/have the most experience behind, and b)most comfortable with. For me that happens to be:
1. 1911 (.45acp)
2. RFI Enfield 2A (.308)
3. I picked up the AR specifically for an urban defense scenario, and am still getting used to it. It does have its merits though, as do a number of other very fine semi-auto rifles.


A close friend of mine is a very avid SKS fan. It's been his rifle of choice since about 16. Good gun... he had a Norinco. Never failed him, I never saw it jam (and I have known him since we were 12), and he has taken a few deer with it even over the years. I personally would have a hard time choosing between an SKS, and an AK, if it wasn't that AK parts seem more common.

Good to know that you are aware of the "corrosive ammo" thing. I participate on other forums, and there are often new guys to the scene who are leery or it, or misunderstand the phrasing. Figured I would throw that out there in case anyone was wondering. So: Don't sweat corrosive ammo, to anyone who may be new to acquiring surplus ammo.

Biggest thing with the AK (if you have a chrome lined barrel) that I have read about is making sure to clean out your gas system so it doesn't get cruddy. That being said I would always clean with something to flush out the deposits. Ak seems to be about the most common denominator anywhere else in the world besides the USA, and even with that, they are around in numbers. So the AK would make a great choice. Thing would be finding a local source of parts if it did break on you (and they can, as anything mechanical can indeed fail). Don't get me wrong... I want an AK myself, and have a lot of respect for that platform. It seems a pretty intuitive gun to shoot, and is accurate enough for defense work, and you could take game with it if you had to. The round is a heavier round, and from what ballistic tables I have seen/vids I have seen, the bullet does drop off pretty sharply after 200 yards. Food for thought though: all guns were designed around a certain set of criteria... made to perform well within certain limitations. Within the limitations (range, application, etc.) it will perform as expected (unless there is a problem).

To the OP: Maybe a 1911 carbine kit could be useful? I've tinkered with that idea myself. Or carry a 1911 and a carbine conversion? There are some neat ones out there. Also, the 1911 is a common enough caliber, easy to reload for. The 1911 is a pretty forgiving gun, with a strong frame should you reload a little hot. Parts are pretty common, and most can be fitted without too much work. Some are drop in, some require a little sanding/filing. Fitting a barrel or a slide is much more involved. If you had to strip it, the gun is pretty much its own toolbox, as long as you aren't running a reverse plug/bull barrel combo. Field stripping is pretty much a snap once you get the process down (doesn't take long). I'm a big fan of the 1911 (as well as many other guns).

The .22 has its merits too. Maybe a backpacking/survival rifle, or a good target .22 pistol tucked away somewhere, coupled with a more powerful rifle? That might add a layer of versatility for you. AK notes mentioned above.

I suppose the short answer (in a really fun and lengthy discussion) would be that any of the originally posted options would be solid choices, depending on what situation you expect yourself to be in. Sorry for the lengthy post. I hope no one feels offended by anything that I have said... I like "food for thought," discussions, and friendly debates.

 

[roar9roar]

Wow. Appreciate the backed up responce and thought behind it. You have your "s" together. I was trying hard not to bash the AR platform, just doing justice to the thread, if one were to have the only choices. To support your backtalk to the AK, salts, and whatnot....My overall point is the AR (I guess I am bashing) is great, but I have not, and I don't know of anyone who has ever cleaned the gas system on an AR. Before you go off, I have 10 plus ar friends and we all shoot, we all realize the 10,000 rnd mark is the gas system cleaning time. But in shooting quality ammo you can push or reduce that timeline. Put an AK behind that and see what the fail point is. I have not heard of one. Lets get out of ak vs ar and go to pull trig and shoot. My point is reliabilty will always be with ak. less parts means less problems.

 

[shoggoth80]

Less parts = less problems. Absolutely true. Glocks run flawless in stock trim forever and a day because of this.

Just to be clear: I am not an AR vs. AK kind of person. I think they are both very good at what they are designed for. I can't afford enough ammo to push either to its limits I think Wish I could, as that would make one **** of a weekend!

Note: none of the points I had made were made to be derisive in any way. I am not about bashing other people's choices in firearms. I try to come from a perspective of learning, and understanding how and why someone makes the choices they do. I am not a gun snob I like guns... all kinds, designed, makes, and of varying historical significance. Of which the AR and the AK have plenty of. Seriously though, I understand the point of view you might have being a staunch AK fan 9and nothing wrong with that at all). Like I said before, I took a VERY long time to warm up to the AR platform, and even at that, I put mine together for a very specific purpose (and at that it is a no frills build up).

Another very good point in the AK's favor is that receivers can be made apparently pretty easily from sheet steel, and heat treated with a torch. The simplicity is the beauty of the design there. You could, in theory make a replacement receiver in your back yard with enough ingenuity. Only critical AK failure I have ever read about was on this forum, where a member had something fail in his bolt assembly (I think something bent).

 

[roar9roar]

Hey, we are cool. Not going to text fight with you. It seems like everyone is afraid of pissing people off by having a hot discussion. I dont want to fight for no reason, but i do want to get a good message out or save you from making the same gun mistakes I made. Thats it. The rest is just fun!

 

[shoggoth80]

Exactly. I'm not into trying to piss people off either, but discussions can get a little heated when the subject is one people feel very passionate about. I just wanted to make sure that no one was taking anything said personally, or out of context. I try to keep the atmosphere to a friendly demeanor... something I can see being thrown about in face to face conversation so to speak.

Trying to save someone gun mistakes is all well and good, as purchasing a firearm to replace a gun you are not happy with gets expensive. In my experience, if you sell a firearm, you are going to sell it at a loss... unless it is collectible and you underpaid anyway.

Best advice I think I can give is to get as much trigger time behind a platform that you are considering as possible. This goes for any gun really. Conversely, I understand that some models may be hard to find for range rental, and expensive or obscure enough that either you won't find one for rent, or you don't know anyone who has it. If that ends up being the case, I suppose research and user feedback might be the only input you can find (user forums for example).

Back to the original posting:
On another forum, I had a couple topics that were very similar to this one. One was in regards to which of my bolt guns would make the better bug out rifle. The thread did waver off course a bit, and it mutated a little, but it was a lot of fun, and I got a lot of information and opinions. The important thing about that thread was that it was originally concerned with what I already owned... which of gun x, y, z would be the better weapon to grab in a SHTF scenario. I then did the same with pistols. In both of those threads there were a lot of recommendations for a given platform, and many good reasons for them. Not going to rehash all the details, as it is unnecessary.

So, do you already own the 10/22, 1911, and an SKS? Or were these weapons that you are considering? There is a HUGE world of variety out there when it comes to firearms. I can see each one serving a particular niche. What sort of survival situation do you expect to find yourself in?

 

[roar9roar]

I have 3 10/22,s no 1911s but several glock 23s with the lightened triggers and all the fun stuff you can clipon. I own several 12gs and multiple misc caliber weapons for post TEOTWAWKI trading. I spend my throw down cash on great gun deals for investment. (getting way off task for the post here). Rounding back, the post about guns being available and ammo the issue is correct in my view. But it is nice to have a reliable weapon that you know like the back of your hand. Unless you live in the city, I really can't see burning though 5000 rounds and still being alive. The law of averages is going to catch up.

 

[shoggoth80]

I used to own a G23. It was a great gun (was stolen with some other arms, one of them has been recovered). The .40S&W is a common enough round... lots of law enforcement use, and it is in about every gun store I have walked in to. Not always the cheapest ammo, but the main places in my area have always had it in stock. That is a good choice for a SHTF pistol.

Even in a city... if you have to fire 5000 rounds, you have way more problems than you can solve with a firearm... and I don't think I'd be sticking around in that sort of scenario, provided I survive said scenario.

The benefit to using a common caliber is that you don't have to lump it all around on your back. You can load a couple hundred (probably more than needed already), and go, and trade/barter/pick up ammo down the road (or load it, depending on the EOTW scenario). I've toyed with the idea of trying to run ONE caliber before... like using a .45acp carbine to match my pistols... but there is a reason why I want an intermediate rifle, as a .45acp carbine probably wouldn't do the trick. This is all highly theoretical of course. Though I do believe societal breakdown is possible. It's still better to plan for the worst case scenario... there is no such thing as being over prepared.

 

[nitestocker]

id use the 10/22 as well i have heard they even use it in israel for crowd control