SHTF Economics

[Riot]

Cigarettes are not something I would use so I am still thinking.

You can make a slow burning fuse out of a cigarette (although they are not that reliable, so I would use more than one)...and you can also use cigarettes for bait (Guerilla Tactics).

 

[Riot]

*double post*

 

[sweetbeard]

dude look here... I am guessing you are waiting for SHTFOMGWTFBBQ these are your homies.

Zombie Squad • Index page

 

[chemist]

Chemistry is an under-rated skill set whereas you can learn how to make things like solvents, cleaning agents, adhesives, explosives, anethesia and other medical utlities.

Thanks for the props, Riot man. The author of "Lucifer's Hammer" thought so too.

I'd add rechargeable AA batteries to the list, and maybe those small solar chargers, but here in Cascadia it could take awhile to gather sufficient photons!

When it comes to addictive drugs like booze & cigs, remember that people go literally nuts in withdrawal, and so can become totally unpredictable. After thinking long and hard, I decided against stocking either. Besides, I can always grow my own booze.

Trading guns and ammo to strangers doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. Wasn't one of John Jacob Aster's expeditions to the NW coast doomed by the sailors who traded knives to the Indians for furs? Lots and lots of knives placed into the hands of the Indians who surrounded their ship. Didn't end well.

Anyway, my math goes:
20-40 rounds of .22LR for a charged AA NiMH battery;
20-40 AA batteries for a silver dollar;
30-60 silver dollars for a one-ounce gold coin.

I keep fit by gardening, not by flexing in front of mirrors in an air-conditioned gym. Maneuvering those wheelbarrows full of clay around the mole holes builds strength, and being out there all day builds endurance. Besides, I gain an appreciation of Nature's rhythms, and can tell when something's not right.

Hey, that reminds me of something else to trade: OFF! insect repellant in those concentrated "Deep Woods" pump-spray bottles.

 

[G XXII]

Things I would NOT use for barter are:
guns
ammo
booze
smokes
gold
food
water
1st aid supplies
I think letting anyone know you have these things could be a very bad thing

 

[Just Jim]

when the heat goes out firewood would do well course you will have to move it across town in a wheel barrow

jj

 

[willseeker]

I've been in construction most of my life, mostly in sales and management, but in the last year I've left my job and started doing carpentry myself.
I used to timberframe homes and have a lot of good quality hand tools.
As it's great to use my compressor, nail guns, cordless screw guns...I know they'll be worthless as mamaries on a boar hog. So, having hand tools will be invaluable.
I might add that nutrition is going to play the ultimate skill set, so I've all but stopped eating processed foods. Stock up on grains, seeds, legumes and spices, has all the protein and carbs for life.

Cheers,
Will

 

[G XXII]

Although I'm not a reloader, i've been thinking that my spent brass might be worth hanging on to for bartering in the future, would be safer to trade than ammo and seems like it would always have value to someone...

 

[Correctthought]

dude look here... I am guessing you are waiting for SHTFOMGWTFBBQ these are your homies.

Zombie Squad • Index page

Ohhh, thanks, nice site.

 

[AMProducts]

When speaking of barterable items, one of the most important things involved is using something for barter that you can produce yourself, and which is divisible. One thing I've always focused on in this regard is chemicals. If you think about it, a lot of people here said "mechanic, machinist, gunsmith" et al. Well, all of those trades are near useless if you have no lubricants, and no solvents to clean up afterwards.

Medicine and hygene will revert to a pre-middle ages state without disinfectants, analgesics, anti-biotics and a whole host of other things brought to you by modern science, not to mention plastics.

Are there no wildcatter's in this group who will drill some oil wells? Some Chemical engineers who will refine it into gasoline, ethylene, urethane, benzine? Someone to make synthetic fertilizers? Ammonia? Chloride? Borate?

Are there any salt merchants?

Before you start putting your price lists together for how many .22 bullets it's going to take to buy a pint of whiskey it is important to consider what else you could do with that whiskey.

When distilling, there are three distinct phases if you are using a reflux still. The first part is called the heads, and distills just below the refluxing point of ethanol, and is composed mostly of methanol. Then comes the ethanol phase, which is the drinkable alcohol, and then the tails, which is mostly propanol and isopropanols then butanols etc.

Methanol can be catalytically reformed into formaldehyde, which when mixed with phenol can be used to make bakelite an early plastic. Or it can be mixed with ammonia and form hexamine, which when properly nitrated can form RDX. It can also be used in transesterification reactions to brake fatty acids down into esters and glycerol.

Ethanol can be chlorated, yielding several drugs, and several precursor chemicals. Can also be used to make tinctures of herbs (medicines).

Propanols are useful as disinfectants and mild degreasers, they can also be burned as liquid fuels.

Butanols are the dehydrating agent used in brake fluid and other hydraulic fluid. Typically mixed with castor oil.

Urea from urine can be converted into ammonia with the addition of hydrochloric acid (BE VERY VERY CAREFUL, THE OTHER PRODUCT IS PHOSGENE!!!!!!!! A CHEMICAL WARFARE AGENT).

I highly recommend the CRC Handbook, any chemistry manual you can find (organic chemistry especially). a pocket calculator, and a high quality manual scale.

Someone mentioned seeds... the important thing is what kind of seeds... Don't forget turkish poppies!

 

[twoclones]

2. What skillsets/jobs do you see as valuable or needed in a post-SHTF world?

Wood carving. If I can carve human faces with hand tools, I can easily carve a new gun stock, spoon, bowl or tool handle. And if you have fuel to trade, I also have a portable sawmill for making lumber

Immediately after it hits the fan, particularly after a natural disaster, I think water filters would be a great bartering item.

 

[armedredneck]

Just a thought on this......

Again, thanks to all that posted and all the great ideas.

After reading through some of the responses I have re-thunk my original ideas and have decided that, yes, trading ammo is probably a really bad idea. I still hold that stashes of liquor could become extremely valuable. As well as medicines and seeds.

As far as a "career" post SHTF.....I'm making all my preparations under the assumption that electricity will be a thing of the past shortly after things go crazy. Fuel will be in short supply and only will keep for so long. Generators make noise and draw attention. I don't know that I have the time or resources to create some kind of self-sustaining power, such as wind, solar, etc...

My family are machinists by trade and own a shop. As valuable as that could be, it doesn't mean anything if you can't create the voltage and amp draw to run the equipment.

Might be time to go back and read the "Little House on the Prairie" books again and come up with some ideas.

BTW, those books are an excellent source of information on how things were done with true "Horse Power".

 

[Decidion]

...Are there any salt merchants?

+1

Salt can be very hard to come by away from a ocean coastal area and is very cheap to stock up on, but will skyrocket in value if SHTF. Stock up on both iodized table salt for eating and non-iodized salt (bulk rock salt for example) for things like preserving meats and tanning hides.

 

[riverrat373]

Ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo and even more ammo!

 

[HappyRoman]

Reloading supplies, are going to become scarce at that time, along with reloading equipment. Might not only have ammo, but componets for continuation of process.

 

[AMProducts]

Just a thought on this......

Again, thanks to all that posted and all the great ideas.

After reading through some of the responses I have re-thunk my original ideas and have decided that, yes, trading ammo is probably a really bad idea. I still hold that stashes of liquor could become extremely valuable. As well as medicines and seeds.

As far as a "career" post SHTF.....I'm making all my preparations under the assumption that electricity will be a thing of the past shortly after things go crazy. Fuel will be in short supply and only will keep for so long. Generators make noise and draw attention. I don't know that I have the time or resources to create some kind of self-sustaining power, such as wind, solar, etc...

My family are machinists by trade and own a shop. As valuable as that could be, it doesn't mean anything if you can't create the voltage and amp draw to run the equipment.

Might be time to go back and read the "Little House on the Prairie" books again and come up with some ideas.

BTW, those books are an excellent source of information on how things were done with true "Horse Power".

Why don't you start building small steam engines, have a piston primary, with a turbine secondary driving induction motors. Easy way to make the juice. Supply a boiler and you can burn coal, wood, oil, waste fats, etc and make juice.

 

[riverrat373]

Reloading supplies, are going to become scarce at that time, along with reloading equipment. Might not only have ammo, but componets for continuation of process.

 

[kenno]

The reason Gold and Silver have value is that they are hard to obtain in nature, have industrial value and are easily transported when compared to other commoditys. Without fast transport and refreigeration food stuffs must stay local. Bread, Wine, Beer, Cheese and Cured Meats are the ancient answer to storing food value.
To make use of valuable metals you must have an economy with fixed weights and meassures, banks, goverments, tax revenue, tax enforcement, oppression. As Shakespear once said sorta,, "Be Base, Common and Popular"
To get an idea of what life in post SHTF America MIGHT be like watch the HBO Series "Deadwood".

 

[dobanion]

Bread, Wine, Beer, Cheese and Cured Meats are the ancient answer to storing food value.

And what do all of these have in common? Yeast and/or bacteria fermentation.

I have been learning and experiementing with all sorts of fermented food. I'm planning on getting a homestead somewhere tropical. So I'm trying traditional tropical fermented staples.

Tapai, a indonesian mold/bacteria/yeast mix is used on rice, cassava, or other starchy foods.

Fufu, where you grate cassava, and ferment it (without any innoculation), in a bag for a few days. Then dry, and grind into flour. Stores for ages.

Apparently poi (made from Taro), will keep for months if you let it sit in a bucket. It will ferment to the point where it's sour and alcoholic enough that nothing else will touch it.

Breadfruit, a monster in terms of calorific output, puts out huge amounts of starchy fruits, that can be cooked much like potatoes. Or, you peel it, slice it, pile it in layers of banana or ti leaves, store at room termp. Has been known to keep for years like that.

I'm making some tapai nasi (rice tapai) today. Cook sticky rice, let it cool, coat with rage tape (bought from efooddepot), let ferment in large jar with cloth over it for 2 days. Drain out the alcohol at the bottom, then stick in the fridge. Let it season for 2 more days, and serve.

All these things have the characteristic taste of sour dough bread, sour, tangy. Taste of alcohol if it hasn't been cooked after fermentation.

LOVE the dark purple sweet potatoes (Okinawa Sweet Potatoes), but the ones they carry are grown in Hawaii on Kauai. 'Uala is the native name. Member of the morning glory family, and they grow with about the same intensity.

So I guess, learning ways of natural food preservation, which means primarily fermenting, is a very useful tool for post SHTF. As is growing the food in the first place.

As for trading, nothing but nothing beats some alcohol. If you are one of the few people running a still, you will always have customers. Hopefully you can start trading finished spirits for raw feed (grains and/or fruits). Same talents from making fermented food will translate to making moonshine.

 

[coctailer]

People will say:
Gold
Silver
Ammo
Guns
Food
TP (the most under-rated of all)

You need all of these.

I think training would be the best. Reading books on SHTF, medical, farming/gardening, edible plants, mechanical, etc

The list of "what do you need" is endless.