SHTF? Do you Team up, or go it alone?

[Peteralexander78]

Community is best. Close friends and family. All must have something to contribute. In SHTF people will be out to take care of themselves and taking from who ever they can. I have little ones and most of my friends and family do too. I would have a very hard time taking care of my family in the woods, doing security and hunting to provide. There is safety and security in numbers.

 

[viehmann7680]

It's natural for people to form communities. I never meant that I would start one right away... unless the oppurtunity was there. I also believe that all the people that think they're going to go it alone, and be all "Rambo"... have watched to many movies and are going to have a rude wake up call if/ when anything happens. Like they said before have fun sleeping/ going to the bathroom/cooking and eating/ staying warm/ and hope you don't even get a minor injury.

People have watched to many movies and played to many video games. Everyone thinks they're a bad @ss and that weapons aren't scary. If there is no law and order, you're going to be seeing a lot of the end of a barrel or blade. The only reason that stops those people right now is because of law and order. So have fun going it alone. Never would I completely trust anyone in a group of people I haven't known my whole life... but it also doesn't mean they're bad people or useless.

 

[andreys21]

Going alone, dying alone. Best way is to team up, don't matter the size of the group. Small group is better for traveling, big group good for staying put. Remember, each and every person has different experiences and acquire different skills throughout their lifetime. Any skill will be useful eventually, weather physical or intellectual. Find a nurse or a doctor in your neighborhood and make friends.

 

[chunkeymonkey66]

Your going to go at it alone for awhile regardless. You have to be flexible and smart to survive...period. Eventually a community is formed when trust and resources are combined. Jesus people thats how we have done it since man walked the earth. Nothing is going to change in that regard.

 

[MissJ]

It's natural for people to form communities.... Never would I completely trust anyone in a group of people I haven't known my whole life... but it also doesn't mean they're bad people or useless.

I agree with you viehmann, especially the parts I quoted. this is a gem "Never completely trust anyone, but it doesn't mean they are bad or useless". I agree that we don't have to completely trust people to have a mutually beneficial relationship.

Small group is better for traveling, big group good for staying put.

Great point....I think we intuitively know that...but I've never had it spelled out so simply and obviously....I'll remember that one.

Eventually a community is formed when trust and resources are combined. Jesus people thats how we have done it since man walked the earth. Nothing is going to change in that regard.

absolutely! mankind has done exactly this for how many millions of years? we ALWAYS form a community....we always eventually establish law and order...the trick is just getting through to the point that society starts to emerge again...your preps won't have to last you forever. your group won't have to "get along" forever... I don't know how long it will take....that depends on the event but it will not take more than a decade (probably much less) for society to start to rebuild itself....it may take generations to repair the damage; but it won't take generations before we organize into mutually beneficial communities.

 

[MikeSettles]

To team up or not: What are you "prepping" for?

Analyze your situation (where you live, how many in your family, how much you have now/can acquire reasonably quickly, how the law restricts you, etc.).

List possible disasters (ice storm, flood, earthquake, a run on beannie babies at WalMart, H1N1, Chinese Invasion) as Most Likely to Least Likely, and Most Dangerous to Least Dangerous.

Reorder the list from Most Likely+Most Dangerous to Least Likely+Least Dangerous. Prep from the top of the list, keeping in mind that SOME preps will apply to MOST catastrophes, such as stored food, fuel, and water in event of an ice storm like we have every several years.

I live in suburbia with like-minded neighbors around me, and with family scattered around the county - not all have the means to put away stocks for TEOTWAKI (young couple next door with a 3-y/o daughter, for example). Though we have nowhere near the stockage of food, water, fuel, ammo, etc. that I would be comfortable with, we have more than they do, and we will help them as necessary.

Bugging out will depend on the situation - same with bugging in. Be (at least) minimally prepared for both. Acquire field skills necessary for survival: Fire-starting, shelter-building, food-gathering & preparation, first aid, sanitation & hygiene. Try it on minimalist camping trips - or try it at home in a back yard. Whatever equipment you acquire, practice with it so that you know you can rely on it (and your skill with it). Other skills will become important for disasters which amount to TEOTWAKI, including but not limited to tracking, patrolling, foraging, defending against other groups, OPSEC, communications, etc. etc. etc.

Cheers!

 

[riverrat373]

Like they say..."Safety in numbers."

 

[OregonPlinker]

At first my neighbors will be our community. Like Trailboss said, things are different in the country. But if we are pushed out of our homes for some reason it will just be my wife and I. The horses and dogs. But no other people. I trust my wife with my life and its the same for her. I taught her to shoot, survive and move so we dont even have to talk when were in the woods. We have habits and a system of getting around. In my opinion we are a team and a dang good one. We would be highly mobile and able to leave very little sign of our activity's. If we had to we could ditch the animals and disappear with hardly a trace. Once I was pushed out of my home unless I recognize you from about 500 yards off you better be a dang quick talker cause I will be shooting first and asking questions later... I will also try to circle around and take back my place and then the neighbors places. If they make it back too we will team back up. If not I will gladly use their resources. I think it would take military to push me and my neighbors off this hill. You got a 2 mile climb. One way in. One way out. Unless you know the area fairly well. We can see down the road for about a mile and just my wife and I have supply's for around 4 hours of constant fire. My neighbors... Well lets just say I love my neighbors like family.

 

[AMProducts]

After reading some of the "what if"s on this thread, it kinda got me thinking... SHTF has come before, there have been more human empires in the past than history knows about, and pretty much every one of them ended at some point. Even today, the US enjoys a rather peculiar position in the world as being among the oldest perpetual states, joined by britain, switzerland and sweden there are essentially no countries today that are the same as they were prior to WW2. Even if the borders are the same, the state is different.

From that, I think we can derive a few lessons, first, while there may have been armed roving gangs looking for loot, they were small easy fodder for bigger predators (militaries). Second, just because law and order goes away doesn't mean the military does. You may argue the military will be coming to loot your stuff, while that is possible, generally a military is simply too large to subsist entirely on forage, and if it is, it will be constantly moving. This constant motion means if there is a military in your area, you might be best off providing them with some forage because they are providing you with some valuable services... wiping out competition.

In general, a lot of talk here is nothing but survivalist fan-fic, the reality is, if SHTF, you want to cooperate, because some day S-will no longer-HTF and if we look at examples in other countries, the people who spent all of their time being aggressive towards their neighbors usually ended up dead afterwards, or are now rotting in a jail near the Hague.

 

[Boats]

I tend to think people are oversimplifying a lot of human characteristics and are hopeful about their "friends are family" where there may not be legitimate cause to be.

There are numerous instances, from the Bible onward, about friends and family turning on one another for power, prestige, position, even over women. In times of starvation, there have been numerous accounts of children being intentionally killed or starved.

There's a saying that applies to the assessment of your friends and families under a SHTF scenario, "You never know what's in the teabag until you've put it in hot water."

Most people don't know themselves under life and death pressurization, what are they going to know about their thought of "solid" friends and family? I am not talking about immediate family here, but extended family, folks who can rationalize about you and yours not being "nuclear" family compared to their own.

Folks say "community" is the natural state of things. It most certainly is not, especially in primitive settings where resources are scarce. Any cooperation in such times/areas, is very tribal and clannish. The only tolerance for true outsiders is for something of use—trade, brides, news, etc., and if times are tough, they are never looking for an extra mouth to feed, even among their own offspring, where post partum abortion by direct action or exposure when the newcomer was a net negative to group survival was not uncommon. Such groups see outsiders as competitors who are to be driven off, not as potential allies.

If the SHTF, everybody had better hope and do what they can to make sure the center holds. In a truly atomistic environment, not even small groups of the likeminded are going to thrive in a sea of utter chaos. The predators are always willing to do something the civilized are not. It's been proven time and again and why Europe, China, and Japan are dotted with castles and the ruins of same.

It took a surplus of food for "communities," as we even conceptualize them as in a rustic farming or fishing village, to form among stranger groups.

 

[unionguy]

No matter the situation, we are doing to have to "deal" with other people. Unless it's a complete Mad Max environment, you won't just be shooting anyone you come across. Even then, every conflict has a chance that you, or one in your group, gets killed or injured...it's the nature of combat. So, we need to learn the skills of reading others, negotiation, and navigating all sorts of encounters that are short of using violence to resolve them. It's not an "either or" question. We will have interactions with others that are short (possibly violent) and others with people for the long-term (your family or team). Even with your team, you will need to manage the stress, keep morale up, handle tensions that happen between people in the best of times...so, I believe developing these 'soft skills' of dealing with and working with others are very important and usually overlooked.

 

[MikeSettles]

I tend to think people are oversimplifying a lot of human characteristics and are hopeful about their "friends are family" where there may not be legitimate cause to be.

There are numerous instances, from the Bible onward, about friends and family turning on one another for power, prestige, position, even over women. In times of starvation, there have been numerous accounts of children being intentionally killed or starved.

There's a saying that applies to the assessment of your friends and families under a SHTF scenario, "You never know what's in the teabag until you've put it in hot water."

Most people don't know themselves under life and death pressurization, what are they going to know about their thought of "solid" friends and family? I am not talking about immediate family here, but extended family, folks who can rationalize about you and yours not being "nuclear" family compared to their own.

Folks say "community" is the natural state of things. It most certainly is not, especially in primitive settings where resources are scarce. Any cooperation in such times/areas, is very tribal and clannish. The only tolerance for true outsiders is for something of use—trade, brides, news, etc., and if times are tough, they are never looking for an extra mouth to feed, even among their own offspring, where post partum abortion by direct action or exposure when the newcomer was a net negative to group survival was not uncommon. Such groups see outsiders as competitors who are to be driven off, not as potential allies.

If the SHTF, everybody had better hope and do what they can to make sure the center holds. In a truly atomistic environment, not even small groups of the likeminded are going to thrive in a sea of utter chaos. The predators are always willing to do something the civilized are not. It's been proven time and again and why Europe, China, and Japan are dotted with castles and the ruins of same.

It took a surplus of food for "communities," as we even conceptualize them as in a rustic farming or fishing village, to form among stranger groups.

Boats: Let's define "community". I expect that it begins wih nuclear family, extended family, clan. It my also devolve to "neighborhood". Small "communities" band together to share resources (including labor) and security. They may fight or trade with other "communities" for resources. Arranged marriages (traditional Middle Eastern culture) bind one community with another. Horse and women stealing (plains' Indians) varies the gene pool.

I do agree that you don't know how someone will react to TEOTWAKI until it happens. I suspect that groups with strong leadership will fair better than nuclear families or individuals, and definitely better than groups with weak leaders. In a strong group individuals with great fear/no skills can be nurtured to productivity by stronger individuals. Conversely, in a weak group, weak individuals will feed each other's fears, and such a group will dissolve - often while being prey to another, more aggressive group. A strong yet benign group will likely attract people with skills necessary for rebuilding - just be sure that they are also trained and motivated to take up arms to defend themselves and the group!
A strong group will grow by absorbing other groups - to the point where they are resource-limited. Then they must decide to keep what they have, limit further expansion, or move into other group's territories. (Forming of City-States, anyone?)

To those who have the necessary skill and desire to take off and survive on their own or with just a spouse or partner: How long do you expect to do this? I think that being able to survive/thrive on your own is admirable - but remember that even the old mountain men like Jim Bridger came down from the mountains once in a while to trade for powder, shot, a new hatchet, pins/needles, whatever. How long before, and under what conditions would you decide to join a group? I suggest that you include that in your mid- to long-range planning.

I have some ideas: But what do the rest of you think?

 

[Boats]

Reading back, it can seem that my post was "anti-community" and perhaps "pro loner." I don't know that I really took either stance. What I was reacting to is the seemingly knee jerk sentiment that some have, that family and/or rural folk are going to somehow automatically be "better" in an extremely dangerous security environment when their mettle has never been put to the test either.

I guess all I am saying is presumptions can be dangerous. After all, Abel trusted Cain up to the moment he was brained with a rock.

Rather than a "lone wolf," it may be better to think of one's self as a "lone mountain lion" for a spell, (observe, but be hard to spot, having to only find and exploit dinner for one rather than for a pack), and then get together with other survivors who have proven themselves over time through the mere act of also surviving without excessive predation.

Bottom line is that no one really has the answers.

 

[knuckle Head]

No one can stay up 24/7 forever, but you must be extremely careful who you team up with just because you think you know does not mean you do, just because you work with them does mean when they say they are watching your back is literal instead of through rifle sites or until your stores are used up or untila better comes along.

I do not allow my people outside my household in my garage, basement or to know my stuff is, how much of it I have etc.. etc.. are there a few and I mean a few not many that have an idea what I got, yes there is and are there a few I can trust yes.

Am I synical?? H3LL yes!!! But in a manner of speaking mind you, my surgeon has advised me to watch my back a little better, the surgeon said one of the times the knife in back is going to hit a vital organ.

Depends on the individual person and sitiation, each one has to be looked individually and with some paranoia

 

[Equinox]

My wife and I have talked about this. We would group up with her dad, my parents, and my best friend John. We are all like minded, firearm proficient, well equipped, and good in the woods. Other than that everyone else is on their own.

 

[oldbrass]

depends what SHTF is, could be WW3,an earthquake ETC. could be a heart attack or cancer, SHTF is a lot of things

 

[MissJ]

My wife and I have talked about this. We would group up with her dad, my parents, and my best friend John. We are all like minded, firearm proficient, well equipped, and good in the woods. Other than that everyone else is on their own.

So a close, tight knit group with mutual love, respect and interest. wise.

One dangerous assumption I think many of us make is that our "chosen" group members will #1 agree to be in our group at all and #2 be able to make it to the spot.

One of my best prospects for a group member (best friend, good shooter, wise, like minded, has stored food and preps) will most likely stay at her spot and take in her and her husband's immediate family. I don't think that will be the best for her long term survival, I think she and her husband would have a better chance at our place- but they are not going to abandon their property...especially when all their family starts showing up with their hands outstretched.

one of the best things about my place is the LACK of local family trying to lean on us; neither my husband or I grew up around here so no nieces, in-laws, uncles, cousins etc. showing up with their hands out. One of the worst things about my situation is the lack of adult defenders...which is why I am always on the lookout for like-minded local adults with minimal "baggage"...they are hard to find. they usually come with a half a dozen family members or so, and maybe one gun with under a hundred rounds of ammo. If they are like-minded, they are broke. If they have money, they are naive and blind to reality. If they are like minded and not broke, then they usually have a local family "clan" riding on their coat-tails. If they are like minded, not broke, and not bogged down with dependents then they probably have better prospects than our humble little hobby farm...

My other best prospect is a prepper family that does pretty well with their resources...I really admire them. But....teaming up with them means feeding 6 or 7 additional people and only gaining 2 or 3 adult defenders. (I won't say only 2 or 3 workers, because kids can and will be made to work...but they cannot be relied on for defense)

depends what SHTF is, could be WW3,an earthquake ETC. could be a heart attack or cancer, SHTF is a lot of things

I think when people refer to "teaming up" post SHTF they generally don't mean a personal event like a foreclosure or cancer, or a short term event like an earthquake or storm....they mean something that turns society upside down and interrupts our re-supply chains for a long period of time (more than a couple of weeks?). Generally you are talking about either a lack of government intervention, or inadequate government intervention.

 

[Bunny]

The answer to this question is going to be different for everyone. I don't think going it alone or with others really matters as much as being aware of your own ability and comfort level. If you can't realistically take care of yourself under any situation, you probably shouldn't consider isolating yourself. Be realistic, and I think your chances of surviving any situation increases.

I'm no Grizzly Adams, and I enjoy the company of others, so I'd prefer to be with close like-minded people.

 

[MikeSettles]

Who you team up with will be dependent on the disaster situation. Consider that you MAY have to join forces just with those who happen to be around you when SHTF. You may have the luxury of enough advance notice to rally with your selected group, and maybe not. Or, you may have to go it alone for a time. Anything can happen. Consider what is possible, and what is likely: Prepare for the "likely" first.

IF you find yourself in an ad hoc group, you MAY find yourself (as the person most prepared, and with a survival mind-set) the leader of your group. You may have to bring the others along, shepherd them, teach them, kick their butts to get things done, all for the good (survival) of the group. If you have the skills and knowledge to keep yourself (and them) alive, but they refuse to cooperate, you may have to leave them behind. Anything is possible: The best tools that you have are your attitude and brain.