Poll: SHTF Comms? What are you using?

[Howard1955]

I put one on my 4x4 pickup truck and it is simple to install if there is room around you battery somewhere. For myself I had to pull the battery out but there was room to mount the EMP Shield next to the battery. I used the incluced velcro and also two long sheet metal screws. It also protects against solar flares as well if another Carrington Event happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event

But I would not want to be driving if an EMP event happens since most of the cars and trucks will be dead on the road and working pickup is very bad news for me. They also have a new smaller design called the EMP micro shield which is a a bit smaller which would be good for cars and trucks that do not have have a lot of open space in their engine compartment.

https://www.empshield.com/product/micro/

I don't have any experience with any other products from EMP Shield. I would like to get a Home unit but hire an electrician since my circuit breaker box has 220v breakers at the top but watching the installation video for the home unit you need 20amp breakers at the top.

Like I said earlier, I don't know much about electricity. Maybe you can answer this question for me.

If a massive electromagnetic pulse hits the wiring of a vehicle or a house, what would prevent that jolt from melting or frying the wires? (I'm thinking about how a fuse melts if it receives too much power.)

In an event like that, how could the charge be "drained away" if the EM pulse is too massive to be carried through the wires?

Or maybe an EMP or Carrington Event isn't strong enough to do that?

 

[3MTA3]

Like I said earlier, I don't know much about electricity. Maybe you can answer this question for me.

If a massive electromagnetic pulse hits the wiring of a vehicle or a house, what would prevent that jolt from melting or frying the wires? (I'm thinking about how a fuse melts if it receives too much power.)

In an event like that, how could the charge be "drained away" if the EM pulse is too massive to be carried through the wires?

Or maybe an EMP or Carrington Event isn't strong enough to do that?

When the EMP Commission tested vehicles, only a few stopped running and those that did restarted immediately. The biggest danger is to the power grid where transformers were damaged along with comms due to antennas (or wiring that acted as such) destroying the attached electronics.

Ham and other comms can be protected by unplugging the power and disconnecting antennas when not in use. If possible have backups in the event that an EMP occurs while you are using them.

Back to the transformers, our previous President created an initiative to stockpile replacements since they are no longer made in the US anymore and lead times are literally years out. I do know that our current President placed that program on hold but it may have restarted since then. Loss of the power grid is the greatest danger we face from an EMP.

A CME is MUCH stronger. When the Carrington CME took place railroad tracks twisted.

Anyone concerned should read the report. The summary will tell you what you need to know in just a few minutes

Homepage

Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

www.empcommission.org

 

[Cerberus Group]

I wasn't trusting on the EMP modules...sounded a bit odd to me.

I'll have to do some more digging, but there was a guy that did some EMP testing, and supposedly hit 10 different newer vehicles with the same strength of EMP as we would encounter, and all 10 started. Some of the fault dash lights were on, and some accessories didn't work, such as wipers etc., but they all ran and drove.

As I stated above, all my radios are powered with battery and solar charged, so no hook up to the grid. As I've researched, if you're using the power grid for your radios, you may be more susceptible to more damageable electrical oddities, than if they were not.

One of the best things is to unkook the antenna...as most everything will travel down the cable to the radio. If you have antenna switches, I would still unhook vs switching to a ground or neutral switch position.

 

[Tony617]

I wasn't trusting on the EMP modules...sounded a bit odd to me.

I'll have to do some more digging, but there was a guy that did some EMP testing, and supposedly hit 10 different newer vehicles with the same strength of EMP as we would encounter, and all 10 started. Some of the fault dash lights were on, and some accessories didn't work, such as wipers etc., but they all ran and drove.

As I stated above, all my radios are powered with battery and solar charged, so no hook up to the grid. As I've researched, if you're using the power grid for your radios, you may be more susceptible to more damageable electrical oddities, than if they were not.

One of the best things is to unkook the antenna...as most everything will travel down the cable to the radio. If you have antenna switches, I would still unhook vs switching to a ground or neutral switch position.

Does the test take into all of the chips used in modern day cars or was it years now so the EMP testing is out of date now?

 

[Crazyeye24]

A really long string with cups on the end....works great!

 

[kopcicle]

Kidding aside, if any want to know about effective, portable antenna, all you have to do is ask.

It's all about what frequency or multiples of frequency and what you're trying to do.

 

[Alexx1401]

If I can get home and hunker down here? We have some of those GMRS radio's we use on the grounds. "Supposedly" go many miles but as anyone who has had them knows that is dreaming. They do work fine to cover the grounds and even from inside the buildings. If not at home when things start to get bad the main goal would be to get home and sit tight once there. Have food, water, and power to last for a good while.

 

[Cerberus Group]

If you don't have transceiver capabilities, at least have worldwide radio listening capabilities.

 

[3MTA3]

Here is a great off grid Ham resource:

https://www.youtube.com/@OH8STN

 

[The Heretic]

Does the test take into all of the chips used in modern day cars or was it years now so the EMP testing is out of date now?

Today's microcontrollers and other ICs are more robust and circuits in cars are better shielded than early electronics in cars when they were migrating to electronics and integrating electronics into vehicles.

OTOH, the system have become more complex, harder to diagnose, and easier to have something go wrong because one part went bad. They also are more "tightly coupled". Usually these faults/issues do not result in a complete breakdown, and increasingly vehicles have a "limp home" mode.

But when things do go bad, it generally is not something that a "backyard mech" can diagnose, and even he/she could, they probably would not have the parts on hand, and if SHTF, it would be easy to get the parts shipped/delivered.

My experience with "new tech" vs. older cars (pre-seventies), is that the older cars took more care to keep them running correctly, but even when there was an issue, it usually wasn't something that took the vehicle out of commission, it just affected performance until you remedied the issue - unless it was something that was catastrophic (broken axle, wheel fally off, driveshaft u-joints breaking, etc.).

E.G., I once had a 65' Ford Galaxie I bought for $50. I drove that thing into the ground. It would overheat and the engine would seize up. I would let it cool for 15-30 minutes, start it up and drive it some more. I drove it until the brakes were metal on metal. I had a number of "imperfect" older vehicles in my early days, that I would maintain by myself well enough to get around. They were usually not very dependable, but I could usually fix them.

My BMWs I put well over 100K miles on them with no issues before having to sell one due to the clutch wearing out (neighbor bought it, replaced the clutch and it is still on the road) - the other I still drive and it is very dependable . Never fails to start and run perfectly.

OTOH, my daughter's car, a 2011 Audi Q5, would run just fine, and then suddenly stop running. Sometimes it would start again and run fine for 10 miles and then stop. We had it in and out of the German car specialist shop half a dozen times until they figured out what the issue was. They would think they had it fixed, give it back to us, and it would run fine for a few days, quit and we would have it towed to the shop and off the tow truck it would run just fine. Eventually they found out that half of the individual ignition coils (one for each cylinder) were fubar.

 

[Wood Worker]

10 round in 4 seconds , Help me. . 20 rounds in 10 seconds move along, I got this.

 

[American123]

Bunch of baofengs that operate on whatever frequencies they do, channels 1-16. If things are so bad I need to use my emergency radio communication, I won't care about having a ham radio license. That being said, we don't use names or addresses and instead use call signs and common names for locations so someone listening can't just immediately know what we are talking about.

In testing their range, they work good enough to allow communication between parties more than 7 city blocks away from eachother, even with small hills between.

 

[ocarolan]

A Rawlesian retreat is never ready without a few TA-1s! Also: carbon transducers are cool

 

[The Heretic]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/1143szx

 

[Mark W.]

Cell phones
Cobra 29NWSTWX CB peeked and tuned with a 84" antenna on the Willys jeep
Cobra 75 WXST CB in Dakota Pickup 4ft Firestik antenna
Midland MXT-400 40 watt GMRS in Willys
Pr Midland GMRS/FSR walkies
Radio Shack and Cobra CB walkie talkies
Heathkit Mohican SW receiever
Silverton 1936 world radio 75' long wire antenna
Soon to purchase a Garmin inReach Satellite texting GPS device
Whistle

 

[Hueco]

 

[gmerkt]

If you unplug any receiver or transceiver and disconnect the antennas then per the EMP Commission's testing they along with vehicles and generators will be just fine.

I've wondered about this. In the (fictional) book, "Warday," by Kunetka and Strieber, 1984, this is discussed with respect to vehicles. In this book, the authors tell us that vehicles which used solid state electronics were rendered non-functional. The only vehicles still running were old ones made prior to the use of solid state systems and Diesel powered rigs. So fire engines, buses and some pre-1970 cars. Some cars had solid state electronics before 1970 +/-. I had a 1962 Lincoln Continental, that had a generator. But I also had a couple of 1963 Lincolns and they had alternators. The alternator has diodes and transistors in it but the generator is strictly electro-mechanical. And not subject to electro-magnetic pulse. Ditto the difference between voltage regulators for the two types.

If this estimate is correct, vehicles made today are even more susceptible to damage from EMP. Diesel vehicles of contemporary vintage have many solid state systems.

The EMP Commission tests, as conducted, don't paint so dire of a picture but demonstrate equipment degradation to some extent. However, I hasten to point out that these tests were done under laboratory conditions and who knows how things might turn out in the case of a real EMP weapon used against us by the Russians, Chinese, N. Koreans, Iranians or who have you.

The EMP Commission points out the possibly greater dangers to motor vehicle transportation from an EMP attack. They are, (1) loss of power to refueling stations, and (2) loss of traffic control due to widespread failure of traffic signals. There was also (3), road congestion from whatever number of abandoned, stalled vehicles blocking the roads.

In the book, "Warday," the protagonist is tickled pink to have his prize possession, a worn-out pre-1970 Dodge Dart.

"Warday" also discusses the kind of economic deflation that occurs when 90% of the nation's money supply vanishes. All those dollar credits recorded in computers just went away.

 

[gmerkt]

Confession time. I have no particular preparedness made for communications. You guys beat me with the two bean cans and a string system.

We have a landline phone, which of course service for which goes away during a power interruption. We have cell phones but even in a emergency such that the local tower or pole is not immediately effected, service can cease. The back-up power for the cell phone pole near me is a set of batteries. Which have a duration of a couple of days, as I understand it. When we had a 60-something hour power outage within the last year, once the batteries went flat, the cell phone company rented a trailer-mounted generator and had it brought out to power the pole. But in any serious emergency, the likelihood of that kind of support would be in question.

I do have one emergency communications item, my little hand-crank radio. At least I could get news from local radio stations on it, so long as they were still transmitting.

 

[The Heretic]

If this estimate is correct, vehicles made today are even more susceptible to damage from EMP. Diesel vehicles of contemporary vintage have many solid state systems.

Other way around.

Early EFI/etc., were poorly shielded. Todays systems are much better in their shielding and resistance to RFI/EMI.

The problem with today's car electronics are that they are much more complex, and tightly integrated - there is more to go wrong, and when it does, it is hard to know what the problem is without the right diagnostic equipment and training/experience. Many of the vehicles do have "limp home" modes though. Some might run poorly for a while until they relearn things. Others might not run at all. But they won't ALL go FUBAR immediately and beyond any repair (some might, at least until some components are repaired.

Diesel vehicles of contemporary vintage have many solid state systems.

Yes, mostly since 2000 to 2010. E.G., my '97 Dodge with a Cummins and manual transmission will be fine. After about '98.5 model year, the Dodges with Cummins started to use electronics in their FI - not sure when, but the auto transmissions had/have electronics in them.

 

[3MTA3]

For those wondering about the EMP Commission you can read their reports here: http://www.empcommission.org/ . I have read that they were going to do another round of testing with modern vehicles and stronger EMP's but do not have any particulars.

I greatly agree that the complexity and integration of today's cars provides multiple points of failure that can come into play. One thing we do know is anything connected to an antenna is susceptible to damage and cars are becoming more and more connected, even to the point where cars send telemetry back to manufacturers with data. This type of system would likely have direct connectivity to the computer and present a vulnerability.

Even given a vehicle is working those drivers that depend on navigation systems will be SOL on two fronts: The navi with it's antenna will be off line and even if it did the GPS satellites it depends on will be non functional. Get paper maps and a magnetic compass.

It's all a moot point because with the grid down the supply chain stops and even if you could extract the fuel available locally it likely won't get replenished.