Shouldering SB15 = SBR. New ATF ruling

[bulletpusher]

I've been a long time believer in bullpups and I have owned a number of them.

They do have some disadvantages, but some of the new ones address some of those problems.

I *love* how they handle while maintaining the barrel length. Even carrying them is easier than the equivalent weight conventional rifle, because the weight is much more centrally balanced, and there is less weight out on either end of the rifle.

[A] EXPENSIVE
the port door is right next to the eye.

 

[The Heretic]

[A] EXPENSIVE
the port door is right next to the eye.

most bullpups are yes - but they don't need to be

if the military standardized on one it would become less expensive

Tavors are coming down in price.

As for the port door - which bullpup?

The DT MDR has a port door, but it is forward eject so the door remains closed, and initial thoughts were (and maybe still are) that the ejection could be moved to the other side.

I only see this as a problem if you have a bullpup that is not ambi or isn't forward eject like the MDR or FN2000 or Keltec RFB

It is more of a problem if you have a lefty shooting it

 

[bulletpusher]

most bullpups are yes - but they don't need to be

if the military standardized on one it would become less expensive

Tavors are coming down in price.

As for the port door - which bullpup?

The DT MDR has a port door, but it is forward eject so the door remains closed, and initial thoughts were (and maybe still are) that the ejection could be moved to the other side.

I only see this as a problem if you have a bullpup that is not ambi or isn't forward eject like the MDR or FN2000 or Keltec RFB

It is more of a problem if you have a lefty shooting it

What would be your top five in terms of user friendly and lowest price, including copies of original designs?

 

[The Heretic]

I haven't used the ones that are popular now, but I would start with the Tavor. I've looked at one, and researched it, and I was going to get one until I learned about the DT MDR - which I am going to wait for.

In the past I owned an AK bullpup (Norinco 86s) but those are rare now and hard to find, so probably not cheap, and they are dated compared to the Tavor or AUG.

I also once owned an AWC G2A which is very rare being an M1A bullpup.

I owned a Mossberg 500 bullpup which Mossberg doesn't make anymore. It is a heavy duty clamshell stock around a slightly modified Mossberg 500 shotgun. I don't usually like clamshells because they make it hard to field strip and the triggers are usually not good, but for a home defense shotgun it was good.

I would avoid at all costs those Muzzlelite kits - they are a total POS!

I once hefted but did not get to shoot an FN2000 - it felt fat to me and I prefer the Tavor.

I was looking today to see what an MSAR clone of the AUG went for and the one I saw seemed to cost as much as an AUG. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

I really want to like the FN P90, but I just can't get used to the grip on it. It just doesn't work for me. I want it to, but it doesn't. The P90, especially with the short barrel, would be just about perfect for my use - small, light, a lot of rounds, matching handgun (I don't like the grip on it either). It would be perfect for my daughter.

Yes, I know, it wouldn't be a good main infantry rifle, but that wouldn't be my usage anyway - my use would be a personal defense weapon, which is what it was designed to be. Maybe I should go shoot one, maybe I could grow to like it.

 

[The Heretic]

Beyond that, I kind of like the Kel-Tec rifle and shotgun, but I am leery of their quality. I've had bad experiences with their firearms.

 

[The Heretic]

https://bullpupforum.com/index.php

 

[bulletpusher]

Beyond that, I kind of like the Kel-Tec rifle and shotgun, but I am leery of their quality. I've had bad experiences with their firearms.

The one is was thinking of is the AUG, which I had in my hands back in 1993 @ $750 new. At one point in 2009, just the barrel was $1,500.!, but i have seen them now for alot less (used). The port door was the issue and I did not buy it. The clone (made in Portland area) has had reliability issues and it costs the same.
FN has crappy customer service, so that one is out. Still interested in PUPS, but I can get a great direct impingement AR-style rifle for less that is easy to work on, a myriad of options to make it mine and very accurate; not to mention the huge buyer markets.

 

[jluck]

If your serious about getting a Bullpup, Ya' outta get the real deal and I don't see them getting cheaper than this!

<broken link removed>

 

[bulletpusher]

If your serious about getting a Bullpup, Ya' outta get the real deal and I don't see them getting cheaper than this!

<broken link removed>

TRUE; however, I have to find out if there is any blowout of residue from the port and how accurate it is. What is the twist?

 

[jluck]

TRUE; however, I have to find out if there is any blowout of residue from the port and how accurate it is. What is the twist?

You must be a lefty being concerned with powder blast? The AUG does offer parts to switch ejection side for south paw shooters. As far as accuracy... I have no Idea. I would assume them to be MOBD (Minute of bad dude) at the worst, The Aug is used by some foreign military and from what I do actually know of Steyr products and the groups I have made with my hunting rifles (.5 pretty easily), I'd bet the AUG to be in the 1.5"@100 meters or better.

 

[bulletpusher]

You must be a lefty being concerned with powder blast? The AUG does offer parts to switch ejection side for south paw shooters. As far as accuracy... I have no Idea. I would assume them to be MOBD (Minute of bad dude) at the worst, The Aug is used by some foreign military and from what I do actually know of Steyr products and the groups I have made with my hunting rifles (.5 pretty easily), I'd bet the AUG to be in the 1.5"@100 meters or better.

No lefty, but the AUG port is just below my dominant right eye. Not a fan of an opening and closing action right in the vicinity of my face.

 

[The Heretic]

No lefty, but the AUG port is just below my dominant right eye. Not a fan of an opening and closing action right in the vicinity of my face.

I have not had a problem with the action being there, and neither has anybody else who shot my bullpups.

I do notice I smell the gases more though, but I put that down to the end of the barrel being closer.

 

[jluck]

No lefty, but the AUG port is just below my dominant right eye. Not a fan of an opening and closing action right in the vicinity of my face.

There is no opening on the left side of rifle if set up for a right handed shooter.

 

[thirtycal]

Just got this one last week - I like pups:



-Thirtycal

 

[Member 34319]

Is reloading the 5.7 like 300blk? IE you must use pistol powders? That is the only way I could see getting a firearm chambered in that caliber. Factory ammo is nutso expensive. However having shot a P90 they are freaking fun. Especially the SBR version. Sadly I wish the one I got to shoot was select fire... It would have been even more fun!

 

[Member 5605]

From the same fiasco:

A little more light.

Remember the word "intent"...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/

 

[peetar]

Here's the key synopsis...

In short, this guy basically sent a love note to the ATF letting them know that he was about to build an unregistered SBR. As long as you intend to make a pistol and don't go sending superfluous letters, you should be just fine.

Everybody needs to just calm down. Intent can not be determined, unless you write a letter to the ATF.
Basically, only this guy is screwed, should he ever decide to make another pistol.

 

[IronMonster]

http://zero7one.com/atf-reverses-sig-brace-decision/


In no uncertain terms, The SIG brace CAN NOT be shouldered or you have created a SBR according to the ATF

This is insane, asinine and simply dumb, But at least its clear.

 

[spectra]

Like they say all good things must come to an end.....

I had a SIG brace and it just did not work for me. I would rather spend the 200 and do a SBR and now with all this poop going on I think that is what they are wanting people to do. They want there money one way or the other.....

 

[deen_ad]

< Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

I wonder when they will raise the cost of the "tax stamp" to $1000 or $2000?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"