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Shouldering SB15 = SBR. New ATF ruling

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by del_and_bones, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. del_and_bones

    del_and_bones Anchorage, AK Physics Pirate

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    Just FYI: It appears that shouldering the Sig Brace turns a pistol into a SBR.

    Link
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  2. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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  3. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    does it go back to being a pistol after its unshouldered....?o_O
     
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  4. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    So just dont get caught doin it...
     
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  5. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Silver Supporter

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    Those youtube guys better lose the videos then :D
     
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  6. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Only if they did it after the new letter came out.

    This should be interesting.

    I had a feeling that somebody in gov would put their foot down on this, and apparently they are trying to. What I expected was a new law, not a contradiction like this.

    It isn't a big deal to me at this point, because I don't have one (yes, I know - it affects everyone in general) and I am a fan of bullpups instead of SBRs. My most likely use of an AR pistol as a rifle would be to put a legal barrel on it and a shoulder stock, converting it back and forth. But since DT is going to be making the SBR, I have changed my plans and I will go with the MDR bullpup instead.

    Just the same, as I said, this will be interesting to see how it plays out. I would not be surprised to see SIG to go to court over this.
     
  7. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Has there been a actual ruling document or just this letter of one man's opinion?
     
  8. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    When the BATF issues such a letter, it is considered a ruling that has the force of law.

    Question is, what happens when they have two different such rulings that seem to contradict each other?

    Like I said, I anticipate a court hearing.
     
  9. B5Ben

    B5Ben Boise Well-Known Member

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    I doubt SIG themselves will be in court over this. As described in the latest letter, it's when used as a shoulder stock (and not in compliance with manufacturer directions as a wrist support) that makes it an SBR. When used as directed by SIG its not an issue and is ok. It's just when shouldered that it's in violation per the latest ruling.
     
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  10. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I dont buy that, It is an opinion issued by a single representative. A case like this where there are conflicting opinion letters shows that quite well. Until someone is charged and a president set we are all just running scared and just hope that we are not the one made an example out of. I can quote the letter that clearly states that misusing the SIG brace does not turn it into a NFA weapon. Its perfectly clear and specific.

    No matter what the ATF thinks, A court of law may think different, and until that court case is ruled on its a crap shoot.

    Not to say I think the letters should be taken lightly. They scare the bejesus outta me. Matter of fact until there is some sort of definitive answer I am likely just to go pull the SIG braces off my pistols and I wont be taking them to the range and shooting them like I have been. I hate to feel that way but I am not one of those cavalier throw it in there face types. When It comes to 99% of things, I am not to concerned with interaction with Law enforcement. I am a upstanding tax payer doing nothing wrong and figure I will be given the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to firearms though I toe the line and stay away from anything questionable. You wont find any bits that are questionable (things like short AR barrels that are not built, M16 parts, "solvent traps" or anything of that nature) at my place. In my mind I have way to much to lose to mess with such things when there is really no value to having any of it.
     
  11. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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  12. bolus

    bolus Portland Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Does anyone use the brace as intended? It just looks so awkward to straight arm fire an AR. Perhaps if you were one handed?
     
  13. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I own two of them, They are both marked "pistol" on the lower.

    I felt pretty secure misusing them based on this letter S72-LEGAL-B1404030900021-640x828.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  14. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member

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    I had one and well I did not like them at all. I will pay the 200 and do a SBR.....
     
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  15. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Silver Supporter

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    Sounds like Earl Griffith and Max Kingery should get on the same page. Perhaps they were the ones deciding the legality of Fast and Furious as well.
     
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  16. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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  17. SOrez

    SOrez SOR Active Member

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    So if someone of smaller stature shoulders an AR pistol buffer tube, will that make it a SBR also?
     
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  18. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Silver Supporter

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    Midgets and small children are exempt
     
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  19. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Crap! Am I gona have to stop putting my Glock up to my shoulder when I shoot it?
     
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  20. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    One thing you have to remember through all this. The BATF is an elite force of the best and most brilliant minds the government can assemble, minds that once declared that a shoe string was in fact a machine gun.