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Should the world intervene?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by timac, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    [h=1]American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?[/h] The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war



    guns-Henry-Porter-008.jpg A man on a rifle range: 'More Americans lost their lives from firearms in the past 45 years than in all wars involving the US.' Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images



    Last week, Starbucks asked its American customers to please not bring their guns into the coffee shop. This is part of the company's concern about customer safety and follows a ban in the summer on smoking within 25 feet of a coffee shop entrance and an earlier ruling about scalding hot coffee. After the celebrated Liebeck v McDonald's case in 1994, involving a woman who suffered third-degree burns to her thighs, Starbucks complies with the Specialty Coffee Association of America's recommendation that drinks should be served at a maximum temperature of 82C.

    Although it was brave of Howard Schultz, the company's chief executive, to go even this far in a country where people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria, we should note that dealing with the risks of scalding and secondary smoke came well before addressing the problem of people who go armed to buy a latte. There can be no weirder order of priorities on this planet.
    That's America, we say, as news of the latest massacre breaks – last week it was the slaughter of 12 people by Aaron Alexis at Washington DC's navy yard – and move on. But what if we no longer thought of this as just a problem for America and, instead, viewed it as an international humanitarian crisis – a quasi civil war, if you like, that calls for outside intervention? As citizens of the world, perhaps we should demand an end to the unimaginable suffering of victims and their families – the maiming and killing of children – just as America does in every new civil conflict around the globe.
    The annual toll from firearms in the US is running at 32,000 deaths and climbing, even though the general crime rate is on a downward path (it is 40% lower than in 1980). If this perennial slaughter doesn't qualify for intercession by the UN and all relevant NGOs, it is hard to know what does.
    To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171.
    That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.
    Everywhere you look in America, people are trying to make life safer. On roads, for example, there has been a huge effort in the past 50 years to enforce speed limits, crack down on drink/drug driving and build safety features into highways, as well as vehicles. The result is a steadily improving record; by 2015, forecasters predict that for first time road deaths will be fewer than those caused by firearms (32,036 to 32,929).
    Plainly, there's no equivalent effort in the area of privately owned firearms. Indeed, most politicians do everything they can to make the country less safe. Recently, a Democrat senator from Arkansas named Mark Pryor ran a TV ad against the gun-control campaign funded by NY mayor Michael Bloomberg – one of the few politicians to stand up to the NRA lobby – explaining why he was against enhanced background checks on gun owners yet was committed to "finding real solutions to violence".
    About their own safety, Americans often have an unusual ability to hold two utterly opposed ideas in their heads simultaneously. That can only explain the past decade in which the fear of terror has cost the country hundreds of billions of dollars in wars, surveillance and intelligence programmes and homeland security. Ten years after 9/11, homeland security spending doubled to $69bn . The total bill since the attacks is more than $649bn.
    One more figure. There have been fewer than 20 terror-related deaths on American soil since 9/11 and about 364,000 deaths caused by privately owned firearms. If any European nation had such a record and persisted in addressing only the first figure, while ignoring the second, you can bet your last pound that the State Department would be warning against travel to that country and no American would set foot in it without body armour.
    But no nation sees itself as outsiders do. Half the country is sane and rational while the other half simply doesn't grasp the inconsistencies and historic lunacy of its position, which springs from the second amendment right to keep and bear arms, and is derived from English common law and our 1689 Bill of Rights. We dispensed with these rights long ago, but American gun owners cleave to them with the tenacity that previous generations fought to continue slavery. Astonishingly, when owning a gun is not about ludicrous macho fantasy, it is mostly seen as a matter of personal safety, like the airbag in the new Ford pick-up or avoiding secondary smoke, despite conclusive evidence that people become less safe as gun ownership rises.
    Last week, I happened to be in New York for the 9/11 anniversary: it occurs to me now that the city that suffered most dreadfully in the attacks and has the greatest reason for jumpiness is also among the places where you find most sense on the gun issue in America. New Yorkers understand that fear breeds peril and, regardless of tragedies such as Sandy Hook and the DC naval yard, the NRA, the gun manufacturers, conservative-inclined politicians and parts of the media will continue to advocate a right, which, at base, is as archaic as a witch trial.
    Talking to American friends, I always sense a kind of despair that the gun lobby is too powerful to challenge and that nothing will ever change. The same resignation was evident in President Obama's rather lifeless reaction to the Washington shooting last week. There is absolutely nothing he can do, which underscores the fact that America is in a jam and that international pressure may be one way of reducing the slaughter over the next generation. This has reached the point where it has ceased to be a domestic issue. The world cannot stand idly by.
     
  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Just try it.
    His so called American friends (ones who generally rub elbows with socialites and travel to puff places) aren't usually the gun toting type in the first place.
     
    mosinguy1 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    maybe the US should intervene in the rest of the world because they cant get a grip on violent crimes in their streets. we do have a great track record that is currently running for continually reducing violent crimes.
     
  4. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    That guy needs to look up the definition of civil war. What a maroon.
     
  5. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    I wish people like this would put their selves in the average persons shoes, not the elitist shoes they so love.
     
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  6. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Typical of British opinion.

    The guy lives in a police/surveillance state with the most dangerous streets and highest crime rates in western Europe and one of the most intrusive security apparatuses in the world short of an actual dictatorship. -But those Americans and their guns, That's what he focuses on.

    Maybe he's just feeling alone in his self-created police state and wants some company to share his misery? Who knows. But also, who gives a rip about what some foreigner thinks about my rights in my country? He can bloviate to his heart's content.
     
  7. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

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    This coming from a person who bows to a queen.
     
    Burt Gummer and (deleted member) like this.
  8. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    WTF
    L&L'd
    Who is this, Pierce Morgans Twin
     
    DMax and (deleted member) like this.
  9. PotshotJim

    PotshotJim Oregon Member

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    Perhaps after tea he should explain the British soldier who was hacked to death in May on a busy London sidewalk in broad daylight by a couple of jihadist and the people on the street did NOTHING.
     
  10. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    but they didn't use guns so no big deal
     
  11. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Limeys should shut their mouths about what happens here in America.
     
  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    That deserves 10 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: and a bonus :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
  13. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    They already tried to intervene in 1775. I actually hope they repeat the feat.
     
  14. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me and I think about things more people are dying in auto accidents and doctor mal practice so we first shouild ban driving and doctors. Why are we avoining the obvious. I have never seen a gun kill someone else on its own. I am sure is has happened but what are the odds.
     
  15. strick

    strick McMinnville Oregon Member

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    Maybe someone should tell him the firearm deaths are dropping not climbing????
     
  16. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Why does anyone give a crap about an opinion of a person living in a country we defeated in war or who lives in a country of tyrants and dictators and king and queens. Really this is like letting liberals pick republican presidents. O wait that is not a good comparison we already do that.
     
  17. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Another thing they seem to over look is the "cause" of these firearm related deaths. They give the total number which includes self defense, accidental, LEO, ect not just those from crime.......
     
  18. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Yep.............. Anytime !
    Sick and tired of people undermining our country.
     
  19. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    Yep, as usual. They also add suicides, and all deaths happening in places like Chicago or DC with the toughest gun control laws in the country.

    What they never count is the number of all self-defense cases where the gun did not have to be fired, but simply displayed.
     
  20. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    I believe he is trying to encourage "Blue Helmet" intervention in the USA . . .
    Probably a trial balloon from foreign buffoon.


    Sheldon