Poll: Should a concealed carrier wear a body cam?

[Member 34319]

Start a YouTube channel. Record everything and post a video once a week.

 

[sobo]

Then again that's where the USCCA comes into play. Join today

Can't in Washington...

Neither can you get:
NRA CarrySafe
ACLDN
CCW Safe
could be others...

 

[CRBMoA]

* Because I'm an American, and I can...

Look! I agree with you guys that wearing the camera if you choose IS your right, and DOES NOT make you a criminal.

Good luck finding 12 of me to be on your jury.

THAT is my point.

I remember a poem from the Boater's Guide published in Oregon in the 70's. Regarding who has right of way, and who wins conflict, the guide had the following poem, to make a point:

"Here lies the body of Mike O'Day,

Who died maintaining his right of way,

His right was clear, his will was strong,

But he is just as dead as if he had been wrong".

 

[11Charlie]

The term GREY MAN was created for a reason.

If that doesn't explain it then maybe this will. NOT A CHANCE IN HELL!!!

 

[leadcounsel]

Look! I agree with you guys that wearing the camera if you choose IS your right, and DOES NOT make you a criminal.

Good luck finding 12 of me to be on your jury.

THAT is my point.

I remember a poem from the Boater's Guide published in Oregon in the 70's. Regarding who has right of way, and who wins conflict, the guide had the following poem, to make a point:

"Here lies the body of Mike O'Day,

Who died maintaining his right of way,

His right was clear, his will was strong,

But he is just as dead as if he had been wrong".

Have you ever tried a criminal or civil case?

 

[11Charlie]

Have you ever tried a criminal or civil case, or read of any case where an aspect to show intent was the fact that one party had a continually recorded video such as we're discussing?

And we're presumably not talking about terrorists filming their terror attacks, or violent mobs or agitators filming to agitate, or crimes committed on live feeds by deranged people.

We're talking about normal everyday law abiding people choosing to carry an added layer of camera security...

Can you articulate how that would be interpreted as intent? Intent to do what, exactly? Intent to legally defend himself? I'm not understanding...

And one step further, how would that "intent" not also be transferred to the act of literally carrying a deadly weapon...? In other words, if you can't defend against the associated "intent to commit a crime b/c you carried a camera," then good luck when it comes to defending as to why you carry a firearm...

Not trying to start a debate but its just easier to stay out of those situations. If you find yourself in one then you leave.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Okay, here's an angle you can take - and MAYBE make some money off of with the whole body cam angle... you're now a Vlogger. If you have a Google account, you have a YouTube channel. You can upload the footage - edited or raw - to YouTube. Get enough views & you can get "monetized" and make some coin off your daily like. NOW if you happen to have an incident and the camera is called to question - you can say you're normally wearing it for your YouTube Channel and it happened to catch the incident.

Kinda like that Toyota salesgirl on tv.. it's really the only way she can wear a red dress otherwise it shows "bad" intent. Genius!

 

[Flymph]

Most people are completely unaware that video taping inside stores and parking lots, on private property, is against most policy and actually violates privacy and copy right laws... so you can wear your body cam in public spaces only.
Might be a good idea in a park or in the woods, maybe even a walk down the street... however that's about the only time you can wear a body cam and might have to defend yourself.
I just associate most defense shootings with home invasions and parking lot encounters. The first being better suited to mounted surveillance and the latter a risk of a trespassing charge, in this instance.
As for intent, it's arguable enough that we're already 4 pages deep.

 

[CRBMoA]

Not an attorney, but I have been involved in litigation on multiple occasions.

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that I just agreed with the idea that carrying a camera is your right and not a crime. That is not what I am arguing, and if you would read what I wrote, you would know that.

I am arguing that judges and juries are human, and an unintended and unfair consequence of exercising your right may be that you are judged more harshly than would have otherwise been the case.

If you cannot follow that clear description of my only point, or even if you can, I am done.

 

[leadcounsel]

Maybe.

 

[leadcounsel]

I think I've learned something new.

 

[leadcounsel]

its just easier to stay out of those situations

Would that same logic not directly apply to carrying a firearm? No need, just stay out of those situations?

 

[Flymph]

Nobody has articulated any manner in which it shows intent, so I'm not sure how it's been "argued."

I'll repeat a statement which has not been address: if someone cannot articulate the reason for having a non-lethal and lawful video recording device, they're gonna have a pretty hard time justifying why they are carrying a firearm. It is far easier to justify the former than the latter, which can take the life of another.

Police do not have their bodycams on unless they intend to confront somebody. Nobody films anything unless they plan to have something to film. A camera must be turned on, a gun can simply be carried.
Having the camera on shows intent to film an event.
Just try wearing a body cam and doing your normal routine, see how it goes. Defensive shooting aside.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm not going to wear a body cam just because I conceal carry.

 

[Kruel J]

Nobody has articulated any manner in which it shows intent, so I'm not sure how it's been "argued."

I'll repeat a statement which has not been address: if someone cannot articulate the reason for having a non-lethal and lawful video recording device, they're gonna have a pretty hard time justifying why they are carrying a firearm. It is far easier to justify the former than the latter, which can take the life of another.

Why do I have to "justify" carrying a firearm? And to whom exactly?

 

[CRBMoA]

I disagree and that has NEVER been my experience and I've tried a lot of cases and practiced in front of maybe a dozen judges. I'll add quite obviously I've probably read many thousands of cases in my career. (As it applies to an act such as taking otherwise lawful video or photos or similar behavior.)

We all know you are a lawyer and I am not. We all know that you are correct in your assertion that merely wearing a body cam DOES NOT imply or create intent of anything, other than to chronicle events.

We can also concede that your experience and expertise in the courtroom eclipse mine in both volume and content.

Now, please tell me you are not saying that you have never seen a judge or jury make a decision based on factors OTHER than what is prescribed by statute?

I hope you find a good camera, and I hope you use it in good health. I was never against you.

Have a great day.

 

[bbbass]

Wear one if you want; don't wear one if you don't want. Use a dash cam if you want; don't if you don't want. Use doorbell/perimeter/nanny cam if you want, don't if you don't want.

Don't need no stinkin "should".

 

[awshoot]

I'm convinced by LC that having a camera is not some indication of intent because if it is such evidence, it would be overshadowed by having the gun. If the prosecutor is going there with a camera, they're going there with a gun.

I'm also not interested in drawing attention to myself -- grey man and all that -- but it occurs to me a person could BOTH record video and remain pretty grey with a camera pen placed in a shirt pocket.

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EDIT: well not that one -- does not record sound. But I'm sure there must be pens that record audio and video.

 

[leadcounsel]

Why do I have to "justify" carrying a firearm? And to whom exactly?

You don't. That's my point.

Well, unless you're facing a capital murder charge, or an aggravated assault charge. Then there might be some 'splaining to do when the charge sheet reads, "...with intent to commit said assault/murder...".

Then, probably a good idea to have a camera to show you were just going to buy groceries when accosted in the parking lot by 3 armed men demanding your money. And that when you shot one in self defense, two grabbed the lead pipe and ran off, unknown and unable to identify, leaving you with a smoking gun and a dead unarmed man in the parking lot.

Scenarios like that, and a million others, might be very hard to explain without video. And even if you can explain, that's a lot of billable lawyer hours involved.

Last year I got car cameras, and I have house cameras, and this conversation and thinking has spurred me and I am 100% convinced I will be getting a daily body camera for public trips.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm getting a body cam. But I'm only gonna turn it on when I'm on the toilet.