Shot for having fake gun.

[LCspeedsteel]

I think you are right, but would like to study how it ended up this way.

It ended up this way because criminals are more willing to use more and more violent tactics.... police are just responding with greater force. It is similar to why most of us carry a firearm instead of a knife or a slingshot. If you're going to win, you don't attend the battle with an equal means to fight, you have to have the bigger stick.

 

[LCspeedsteel]

REAL GUN!!!



REAL GUN!!!


My point is: If you were in the SAME position/situation.... are you still going to stick to being the gambling type?

 

[Rascals]

So because I support police, or at least refuse to condemn them based on a media report, I am living in a fantasy world and I am a Nazi???

Just for your sanity, I am neither. I'm sorry that you have had bad interactions with police. But your bad interactions do not mean that every media report where the police are painted in an unflattering light are true.

When an officer is convicted in a court of law, not the court of public opinion, of wrongdoing, they should be punished like every other person in the US. But unlike you, I refuse to condemn the actions of police officers based on what the media reports.

The guy was asleep. How hard is it to control him. They would of been better to taze him while he was asleep. Granted he probably was stronger then some of the 82 year old women I have seen them slam down but come on.

 

[saxon]

cop bashing??????? tell me what they are good for then????
and i have a few cop friends and we always go round and round on some of this stuff

but please what is a cop job if you feel so inclined to tell us????

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone - New York Times
Published: June 28, 2005
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

<broken link removed>

The Police: No Duty To Protect Individuals

 

[MountainBear]

The guy was asleep. How hard is it to control him. They would of been better to taze him while he was asleep. Granted he probably was stronger then some of the 82 year old women I have seen them slam down but come on.

Then you would complain about tazing a sleeping man. There is simply no pleasing some people.

 

[cyclesarge]

Ya they must of been afraid the gun would go off without anybody touching it. He was passed out go up and take it out of his waistband. Nope they have to shot him. Big tuff cops. Respect my authorita.

Obviously you didn't read the previous post, or the article.

The guy was asleep. How hard is it to control him. They would of been better to taze him while he was asleep. Granted he probably was stronger then some of the 82 year old women I have seen them slam down but come on.

How do they KNOW he's asleep? The same way they are supposed to GUESS the gun isn't real? I guess I know how to "get over" on the cop bashers on this thread, just act like I'm sleeping.

 

[nitestocker]

hes probably had problems with authority in his life maybe ?

 

[LCspeedsteel]

lol, has rascal been a victim of police brutality? or perhaps rascal got a speeding ticket this week, and now police are awful. when some turd steals crap out of your house... who do you think should look for the individual?? are you going to take a few weeks off of work to conduct your investigation?? going to take your favorite firearm out on your hip and go knock on doors around the neighborhood demanding answers on where your items went?? or will you call the police, and let them handle it??

Saxon-
who should the bank call when it gets held up? who should knock on a person's door to tell them that their loved one has been killed in an accident? who should arrest a drunk driver thats on the same road that your wife takes to bring the kids home from soccer practice? maybe that drunk has the right to drive whichever roads he/she pleases, as drunk as they want? the constitution doesn't mention that people can't drive drunk.... why is it a law?!?!?! how weird - the founding fathers forgot to mention cars!!!

 

[locobob]

How about a hypothetical situation for those of you who are prone to paranoia and in favor of an aggressive "shoot first" approach.

You are an honest, upstanding citizen and you have a CHL and are carrying. You are walking along in a public place and somehow bump your head inducing a state of unconsciousness. Someone happens along and finds you passed out with your firearm exposed and calls the cops. The cops show up and began yelling at you, in a state of delirium you move your hand in the general direction of your firearm and the cops open fire. You have not hurt a fly nor broken any laws but are now dead at the hands of the police.

So I ask....
Was their another way that the police could have handled this situation, a way that would not have resulted in the death of an innocent citizen (you)?
Why were you (an unknown man with a holstered firearm) automatically assumed to be a threat or enemy?
Should police automatically assume all citizens are threats and treat them with a high degree of suspicion?
Should police place officer safety ahead of citizen safety in situations where threat status has not been positively established?

 

[MountainBear]

How about a hypothetical situation for those of you who are prone to paranoia and in favor of an aggressive "shoot first" approach.

You are an honest, upstanding citizen and you have a CHL and are carrying. You are walking along in a public place and somehow bump your head inducing a state of unconsciousness. Someone happens along and finds you passed out with your firearm exposed and calls the cops. The cops show up and began yelling at you, in a state of delirium you move your hand in the general direction of your firearm and the cops open fire. You have not hurt a fly nor broken any laws but are now dead at the hands of the police.

So I ask....
Was their another way that the police could have handled this situation, a way that would not have resulted in the death of an innocent citizen (you)?
Why were you (an unknown man with a holstered firearm) automatically assumed to be a threat or enemy?
Should police automatically assume all citizens are threats and treat them with a high degree of suspicion?
Should police place officer safety ahead of citizen safety in situations where threat status has not been positively established?

You're still working off the assumption that all the facts came out in the one story you read. All I'm advocating is waiting to see approach. Standard practice is that the officers involved go on administrative leave for all shooting, while a review board and/or a grand jury review the circumstances. If a grand jury recommends charges and a jury of their peers finds them guilty of a crime, then by all means, have at it. But judging based on a single news report is inappropriate.

 

[Rascals]

I have friends that went form being lifelong friends who know me my whole life and what I believed and what I would and would not do ( becasue they were the ones who would break the laws and try to get away with everything go from being friends to its us vs them with me being the them. And when I confronted them with he wait a minute you have known me all my life and when I you ever know me to do anything wrong intentionally. And there comment was you haven't done anything wrong yet but you will. Then have him call in to dispatch becasue he was running late for work to find out where the cops were so you could speed to get to work. along with all sorts of other stuff. Some of the worst people I have ever met thought becasue they were cops they could do no wrong. Well know body is above the law. What you are gonna see is with there jack booted ways things will get more and more violent.
Also just becasue you dont have a badge does not mean you the laws. when I do something wrong then Its my fault knowbody else. What I dont like is if I treat others with respect I deserve that back or do you disagree. And as far as complaining about somebody being tazed as long its better then shooting the guy. Call it what you want but im sorry Rambos need to back off.

 

[MountainBear]

I mean no disrespect with this statement Rascals, but please proofread your posts before submitting them. The only sentence in the above post that was understandable is that you believe that officers who act like Rambo need to back off. The rest was a bit scrambled. Again, no offense. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please express it in a way that is coherent and readable.

 

[LCspeedsteel]

for anyone on either side of this argument- i have an experiment that may help you evaluate your opinion on this event that has taken place:

1. dress up in some scrubs
2. tuck a plastic gun in your waistband
3. go sleep on some stairs in a place that is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
4. when you are awakened, reach for the plastic gun
5. evaluate the outcome

nobody wants to do this, huh? because you expect a response to your actions that wouldn't fare well for you

it's too bad that he ended up getting shot, but nobody knew what he was up to, and everything about the guy was strange without knowing what was on HIS mind.

these guys were dressed weird ---> North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
wouldn't it have been nice to have police catch them sleeping? you never know what someone is up to, you have to investigate. investigating an incident can be hairy when a person has a gun that they could shoot you with

 

[Rascals]

First off I reread what I wrote and your right sorry. Im home right now witha furious ear infection and im doing everything with my head tilted at a 90% angle and its hard to type and read. But in awnser to Lc speed why would somebody jsut reach there while waking up if they knew it was fake? Would you? I sure would not. All we hear is there side becasue they live and he did not. Why not taze him? Would it not be better to get complaints about tazing or is that such a bad thing its better just to kill now days?
With all the rash of most of the shooting we have had latly I have agreed that the officers were justified. Like that bum that came out of restrooms I would of done the same thing and with all of the other ones I have read about, but this one I think it was overkill.

 

[cyclesarge]

for anyone on either side of this argument- i have an experiment that may help you evaluate your opinion on this event that has taken place:

1. dress up in some scrubs
2. tuck a plastic gun in your waistband
3. go sleep on some stairs in a place that is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
4. when you are awakened, reach for the plastic gun
5. evaluate the outcome

nobody wants to do this, huh? because you expect a response to your actions that wouldn't fare well for you

it's too bad that he ended up getting shot, but nobody knew what he was up to, and everything about the guy was strange without knowing what was on HIS mind.

Kinda what I was thinking when the O.P. wrote.

Shot for having fake gun

Careful what you dress up as and where you pass out.

It's almost like it's a bad idea to dress up in strange clothing (like an escaped mental patient?)and then pass out where you shouldn't be sleeping, with what appears to be a gun tucked in your waistband.
It's unfortunate the guy got shot, though not surprising after making a series of bad decisions.


I'd also like to point out (according to the article) he didn't get "shot for having a fake gun", he got shot for reaching for what looked like a real gun when confronted by the police while "sleeping" in a place where he shouldn't be sleeping.

 

[MountainBear]

I hope you feel better Rascals.

 

[MountainBear]

The story says it was a gold colored gun. Like this?

 

[LCspeedsteel]

First off I reread what I wrote and your right sorry. Im home right now witha furious ear infection and im doing everything with my head tilted at a 90% angle and its hard to type and read. But in awnser to Lc speed why would somebody jsut reach there while waking up if they knew it was fake? Would you? I sure would not. All we hear is there side becasue they live and he did not. Why not taze him? Would it not be better to get complaints about tazing or is that such a bad thing its better just to kill now days?
With all the rash of most of the shooting we have had latly I have agreed that the officers were justified. Like that bum that came out of restrooms I would of done the same thing and with all of the other ones I have read about, but this one I think it was overkill.

you dont try to use a taser against a guy who has a gun, first of all. if a guy pulls out a gun, would you go for your knife? also, taser cartridges have a limited range, some 15ft, some 25ft etc... and what if one of the barbs of the taser doesn't stick in your subject, WHO HAS A GUN. again, you don't want to find out the hard way, so yes. in this instance, from the information i have.... shooting him was a pretty standard response to this situation. the only thing that makes it overkill is the fact that the gun turned out to be a toy (discovered AFTERWARDS)

your ear infection has become a brain infection, sorry about your luck

 

[Burt Gummer]

Every possible abuse is falsely justified. This empowers the state to do whatever they want at the expense of the individual. We are neither free or brave within our clandestine empire. Eventually the horrendous abuses we are inflicting on people abroad will come home to roost. We get the government we deserve. Enjoy your shackles.

 

[MountainBear]

Okay...