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Just an FYI:

The muzzle blast is (approximately) a point source. This means the sound decreases as the square of the distance. An observer at 200 yards distance will experience a sound level about 1/4 that at 100 yards.

The sonic crack is a line source. This means the sound decreases as the distance increases. An observer at 200 yards distance will experience a sound level about 1/2 that at 100 yards. However the longer the distance to the observer, compared to the flight path of the bullet, the more this line source acts like a point source. If you shoot into the berm at 100 yards and the observer is a thousand yards away, the sonic crack will be more like a point source.

It seems to me that if you are shooting at a fixed target, then just build a simple lengthwise shed with 45 degree (one in one) roof, and little to no sides (that is, just roof). This will deflect the muzzle blast straight down into the ground. However I think metal roofing is not a good choice as it transmits sound well.
 

arakboss

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Just an FYI:

The muzzle blast is (approximately) a point source. This means the sound decreases as the square of the distance. An observer at 200 yards distance will experience a sound level about 1/4 that at 100 yards.

The sonic crack is a line source. This means the sound decreases as the distance increases. An observer at 200 yards distance will experience a sound level about 1/2 that at 100 yards. However the longer the distance to the observer, compared to the flight path of the bullet, the more this line source acts like a point source. If you shoot into the berm at 100 yards and the observer is a thousand yards away, the sonic crack will be more like a point source.

It seems to me that if you are shooting at a fixed target, then just build a simple lengthwise shed with 45 degree (one in one) roof, and little to no sides (that is, just roof). This will deflect the muzzle blast straight down into the ground. However I think metal roofing is not a good choice as it transmits sound well.
Why would walls prevent the roof from deflecting the muzzle blast straight down into the ground? It seems like muzzle blast is going to be around the entirety of the muzzle depending on type of muzzle device (if any)

So, you think a narrower longer shed would better? Maybe just room for one bench and enough room for shooter to sit and walk around both left or right side of bench? How far back from eve/overhang would you want the muzzle of the firearm to be when shooting.

The point and line source are more topics to research. thanks.
 

arakboss

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The cheapest and most effective idea given here would be a stick frame with an outer covering of sheet metal ( weather proofing). And the inner wall made from Carpet (sound deadening) . with the Wall hollow empty. Sound travels as a Wave. And each transition from air to material slows it down. You could add a layer of Celotex (old school Sound board that used to be used in homes and schools)

If you do this along with the 55 gallon drum muffler (four corners rod and gun club use these to great effect they are lined with burlap and possibly carpet) I would say you will greatly reduce the db your neighbors hear.
Another guys drum muffler, it doesn't mitigate the super sonic crack as much but would probably be great with sub-sonic ammo:

 
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I think the shooting barns at Tri County suck eggs as far as noise abatement. If you want to see it done right, stop by the FMC rifle range in Green River / Rock Springs, WY. They have a high density material in the ceiling baffles that absorbs sound nicely. The guy one table over can be shooting a magnum and the sound is truly not that bad. Granted, at the FMC range, they don't have a cinder block wall behind the benches.

Option 1:
Sure, you can use tires, or a drum.
Build a small enclosed shed that you can tilt and roll around on dolly wheels.
Line it with 4" or 8" of Babcock/Wilcox Cerwool blanket (they've changed their name). Doesn't have to be big, and you don't have to be totally enclosed.

Option 2:
Look into expanded concrete - basically whipping air into concrete to make it like styrofoam. Very strong compression strength, the stuff absorbs and abates sound nicely. You have to seal it though, because it absorbs water.

Overly complex solutions to something that can be simply resolved with a suppressor.
 

arakboss

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I think the shooting barns at Tri County suck eggs as far as noise abatement. If you want to see it done right, stop by the FMC rifle range in Green River / Rock Springs, WY. They have a high density material in the ceiling baffles that absorbs sound nicely. The guy one table over can be shooting a magnum and the sound is truly not that bad. Granted, at the FMC range, they don't have a cinder block wall behind the benches.

Option 1:
Sure, you can use tires, or a drum.
Build a small enclosed shed that you can tilt and roll around on dolly wheels.
Line it with 4" or 8" of Babcock/Wilcox Cerwool blanket (they've changed their name). Doesn't have to be big, and you don't have to be totally enclosed.

Option 2:
Look into expanded concrete - basically whipping air into concrete to make it like styrofoam. Very strong compression strength, the stuff absorbs and abates sound nicely. You have to seal it though, because it absorbs water.

Overly complex solutions to something that can be simply resolved with a suppressor.
A suppressor would be nice but would not work with the majority of my firearms. If we can start buying them legally without a stamp and at mass produced prices, I might get in that game.
 

Mark W.

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How would anything at the muzzle of a firearm stop the sound being created by the bullet breaking the sound barrier as it travels to the target? Unless you had it the full length of the trajectory of of the bullet? if this is your goal I suggest you rent an excavator and dig a trench about 3ft deeper then your bullet will be traveling from the shooting position to the Target.

A suppressor will not stop the sonic boom from a bullet traveling faster then the speed of sound. It will only reduce the sound of the muzzle blast.
 
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How would anything at the muzzle of a firearm stop the sound being created by the bullet breaking the sound barrier as it travels to the target? Unless you had it the full length of the trajectory of of the bullet? if this is your goal I suggest you rent an excavator and dig a trench about 3ft deeper then your bullet will be traveling from the shooting position to the Target.

A suppressor will not stop the sonic boom from a bullet traveling faster then the speed of sound. It will only reduce the sound of the muzzle blast.
Yep, and the larger the caliber, the louder the crack. However, the sound is not directed as it is like the muzzle of a rifle, and so attenuates very quickly with distance.
1 mile away, unless the bullet is passing close by you, you don't hear the crack, you hear the muzzle blast.
 
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"Why would walls prevent the roof from deflecting the muzzle blast straight down into the ground?"

Using just roof, there is one reflection off the roof surface, then it's the ground. If there are walls, maybe not quite that direct. A lot of this is just conjecture. :)

"However, the sound is not directed as it is like the muzzle of a rifle, and so attenuates very quickly with distance."

As a line source, the sound actually drops off more slowly than a point source would.

"unless the bullet is passing close by you, you don't hear the crack, you hear the muzzle blast."

That has more to do with the fact that the muzzle blast is initially much louder than the sonic crack, I think.

However I might be mistaken about calling the sonic crack a line source. With a true line source the observer receives emissions from all points in the line constantly, while with a sonic crack there is a travelling wavefront that comes off the bullet.

I wonder what a plain length of large diameter PVC pipe might do, for the muzzle blast?
 
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arakboss

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"Why would walls prevent the roof from deflecting the muzzle blast straight down into the ground?"

Using just roof, there is one reflection off the roof surface, then it's the ground. If there are walls, maybe not quite that direct. A lot of this is just conjecture. :)

"However, the sound is not directed as it is like the muzzle of a rifle, and so attenuates very quickly with distance."

As a line source, the sound actually drops off more slowly than a point source would.

"unless the bullet is passing close by you, you don't hear the crack, you hear the muzzle blast."

That has more to do with the fact that the muzzle blast is initially much louder than the sonic crack, I think.

However I might be mistaken about calling the sonic crack a line source. With a true line source the observer receives emissions from all points in the line constantly, while with a sonic crack there is a travelling wavefront that comes off the bullet.
In my situation I am shooting towards a national forest so there are no neighbors there I am worried about disturbing with noise. The direction of fire happens to be North or NW. The neighbors I am worried about disturbing are in a SE direction. My plan is to try and direct the noise that leaves my property as much to the North/NW as possible. I am hoping a three sided building with opening facing North/NW will accomplish that to some degree. I am also going to expirement with the drum muffler method this weekend which might help too. I have two spots I scoped out last weekend that will give me 185 yrds and 150 yards from my property line to the targets. I guess the neigbors will probably let me know if the drum muffler doesn't work.
 
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It's funny, I previously lived S of Hillsboro in an area of 10 acre parcels. I had a 100 yard range down in a gully behind my house. To the side, about 100 yards from my bench, was another house. Somebody new moved in.

I can't remember how it came up, but I became aware she didn't like my shooting there. I called her up and talked to her. I was trying to be sensitive to her concerns, so I asked if she would be OK with me shooting when she was not home. We went back and forth a couple times with that idea, and then finally she just told me to go ahead and shoot whenever I wanted to. :) I think it turned out well because she saw I was acting reasonably and didn't want to bother her.

Of course my shooting was not that frequent, and when I did shoot it was just to check loads, zeros, etc. I did at one time try a course of fire with one of my semi-auto .308's, something like 50 rounds IIRC, but decided that was a bit too much for the neighborhood.:oops:

I guess my point is that if you show you are trying not to be a jerk and you are aware of their concerns, you might get lucky...
 

arakboss

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It's funny, I previously lived S of Hillsboro in an area of 10 acre parcels. I had a 100 yard range down in a gully behind my house. To the side, about 100 yards from my bench, was another house. Somebody new moved in.

I can't remember how it came up, but I became aware she didn't like my shooting there. I called her up and talked to her. I was trying to be sensitive to her concerns, so I asked if she would be OK with me shooting when she was not home. We went back and forth a couple times with that idea, and then finally she just told me to go ahead and shoot whenever I wanted to. :) I think it turned out well because she saw I was acting reasonably and didn't want to bother her.

Of course my shooting was not that frequent, and when I did shoot it was just to check loads, zeros, etc. I did at one time try a course of fire with one of my semi-auto .308's, something like 50 rounds IIRC, but decided that was a bit too much for the neighborhood.:oops:

I guess my point is that if you show you are trying not to be a jerk and you are aware of their concerns, you might get lucky...
Thanks for the advice I only have about 2 acres to work with but my neighbors are farther away. We are going down this weekend and we'll do some testing with me walking down by the neighbors area and my wife testing out firing some different rifles and pistols to see what they might be hearing. I could be worrying about nothing.

I know when others are shooting up at the cinder pit which is 400yds from my place, I can hear it loud and clear even though they are shooting north (hopefully they are). The cinder pit floor sits higher than my place by about 150ft of elevation so maybe that is allowing the noise to bypass the ground and vegetation along the way to reaching my place. My elevation is the same as the neighbors and we have quite a few trees and vegetation on the ground so maybe that will help buffer the noise some.

I could just keep shooting as I please until a neighbor or a deputy shows up but I would rather dampen it down if possible to prevent that from happening. I love my property as is but if I can have a 200yrd range, 100ft from the the house, that will up the love factor a bit. I picked up a large 1/2 gong from cabelas in the Bargain Cave a couple of years ago and it's begging to be banged on from 200yds.
 
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Of you can afford it, I suggest you add a layer of the 2" Styrofoam material to the inside of whatever you decide to build. Also, if you build it so you are actually firing with your Muzzle inside the structure. These two features will greatly reduce the outside noise factor.
 

arakboss

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I am revisting this shooting shack project and have some feedback from one neighbor that I spoke with this weekend.

He stopped to visit with me at my property and I mentioned the firearm testing I had been doing. He said he heard. I explained that I was mostly shooting in the forest about 100yds from my back fence. I asked if he could tell that I wasn't up at the cinder pit, he said he could. It wasn't just the increased loudness but the direction and he guessed it was coming from near my place.

He is a fair weather resident that only lives there about 2/3rds of the year. The full time neighbors live right near him.

These are the things I am going to do to minimize noise while shooting on my property.


1. I am going to convert my "summer kitchen" into the shooting shack. It's basically a lean-to with plywood back wall and sheet plastic on sides and front wall. My plan is to move the firewood that curently resides in there, to the outside of the shack. I will use plywood to cover the east and west side exterior walls. The north wall will be split with solid bottom portion and hinged top portion which I will partially open to shoot through. After completing this, I will get more feedback from neighbor and my own ears and see if any significant noise reduction was achieved.

2. I plan to only shoot lower noise loads and ammo from this shack and at backstops on my own property. I will save full house loads for Tri County or occasionally up at the cinder pit.

My goal is for the neighbors to perceive shooting noise levels from my property to be equal to or less than the noise coming from locals shooting at the cinder pit.

One day I may give into the ATF thugs and get a suppressor but I am not there yet.

The senators should have negotiated the safe hearing act into the package they passed.
 

arakboss

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The next step would be to add some cheap sound absorbing panels on the inside walls.


If I end up using these sound absorbing panels and I'm still am not happy with sound level, I will add second layer of plywood on inside of wall frame, then more foam sound panels. If all that fails then a layer of drywall. My last effort will be to buy them all ear plugs.

Some ventilation will be necessary. I will aim the exhaust towards the North (same direction as I will be shooting towards). The building is about 200ft into the property from the road. That only leaves me with about 300ft to place backstops before hitting the National Forest boundary (and my back fence).
 

arakboss

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I decided last night creating a Shooting Shack is priority numero uno among cabin property projects. I have most of the large component materials needed for the project. I am setting a $500 budget to cover loose ends like fasteners, caulking, weatherstripping, paint, sound absorbing pads, etc. I will sketch up some poorly drawn back of the napkin plans this weekend.

If you were designing it for noise reduction, would you set it up to fire rifles with muzzle inside building or just barely outside the building.

Pistols will have to be fired with muzzle inside the building unless shooter has 5ft long arms.
 

arakboss

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I can legally shoot on my property. I can legally shoot in the national forest adjacent to my property.

Can I legally shoot from my property into the national forest? If that is legal, I could easily extend the range another 100yds as the forest area behind my place gently climbs in elevation and would provide a natural backstop.

Here is the shooting shack distance from current backstop. My back property line is a little past the dark circle which is left over from previous yard debris burn. The mess in front of the shooting shack is long gone except for a 275gal caged tote filled with water that is at least 14 years old. It smells older.


Screenshot (174).png
 
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You say you're converting your summer kitchen for this purpose. If it's attached to your main living space in any way, I would recommend against that plan due to potential lead exposure, and if you're preparing meals in the same space as where you test fire, that's a good way to get sick. Won’t happen right away, but it will sneak up on you over time. Used to work at an indoor gun range, and my lead levels jumped over a 6 month period, even with using PPE and de-lead soap. Lead poisoning is a real risk, one you should take into consideration when building a shooting space.
 
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I have built a few sound reducing rooms, and a shooting shack or two. My most successful have used curtains of used carpet , carpet on the floor and ceiling.
I hang carpet like you would a clothes line with the bottom just off the ground. and then a second layer just inside that . the second layer should touch the ground but hang down from the ceiling a couple inches. it makes the sound waves travel over one curtain and under the next.
When you get to that front baffle , have several curtains of carpet hanging down.
If that does not give you enough sound reduction extend a couple lines out from the front of the building another15 feet or so.
two or three layers of carpet do a surprising job of cutting noise.
Make friends with a carpet layer to get free insulation.
The shack we did this in is good enough to shoot at night without the neighbors complaining.
The carpet on the walls and ceiling have been there 15 years or so. the floor and outdoor curtains have been replaced a couple times. [ he lives where it snows]. DR
 

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